Thoughts from a New Player

[x1101011x]

it shuts up people requesting 2 of the most asked for things ... It likewise takes away the 'I don't wanters' screams because they can toggle them.

I toggle it off, so that I don't see them. Now, I ask in chat where this quest is, and I get told, "Just toggle quest markers on."

I find the quest and complete it, gaining knowledge about who gives the quest and where they are. Other people toggle the option on. They get the quest without asking about it. Now I've missed an opportunity to help someone else by sharing my knowledge.

This game is about presenting challenges to overcome with cooperation and collaboration. Finding the quest is a challenge to overcome. People will try all sorts of different ways to overcome a challenge. Naturally, some will try to overcome it by asking to have the challenge removed.

Should we do it?

Now, you might say, "There are plenty of other challenges in the game like bosses and named mobs. This is just one little qol change that will satisfy players and boost player numbers."

But it's not. It won't satisfy players because the next complaint will now be the biggest complaint, and it won't boost numbers because people will still have trouble finding groups, which is the core issue.

Other games made small changes like this slowly over the years and became something terrible. Sure, this one small change wouldn't completely ruin the game yet, but it does lose something that makes it good, and if your reason for implementing the change can then be applied to the next change and the next, then the slippery slope isn't a fallacy.

Where's the point to stop, and why isn't it here?

 

[Undone]

I think there is a healthy middle ground where we do a better job in the quest log either by giving more info or better descriptions.

 

[x1101011x]

I think there is a healthy middle ground where we do a better job in the quest log either by giving more info or better descriptions.

If quest markers were implemented, then maybe a good middle ground would be having NPCs with a quest occasionally perform some emote animation to indicate that something is on their mind.

 

[Espysix]

If quest markers were implemented, then maybe a good middle ground would be having NPCs with a quest occasionally perform some emote animation to indicate that something is on their mind.

I actually really like this idea. Something, anything that says, "hey I have something worth talking about" would be great over the current system of spamming through every dialog box.

Covid has been kicking my butt, however I've read through the replies. I will say, that learning about blupider was eye opening for direction. Why can't the first NPC you talk to say something along the lines of, "if you get lost, look to the sky."

I still feel strongly about the quest log spelling some things out. Quest giver's name, and location, written in the text, so you know where to go. Not a map icon, or anything like that. And a continuous log of what you have finished rather than the finished quest steps vanishing.

I still feel trial accounts need to have access to the class specializations. This is one point I continuously see brought up in both streams, and in game. You may have a general feel of the game by the time you are level 6, but you don't have a feel of the class. As soon as an unsure, new player can try something new on the hotbar, they are hit with a paywall. This is a massive turnoff. Honestly, why not just give access to the 2nd region and make leaving northreach the barrier instead of the city.

Most grouping is happening in northreach anyway, and you'd have a higher pop there from those on the fence wondering. The more time invested early game, the more time that is likely to turn into a purchase, or hopefully a recurring sub!

 

[Undone]

Covid has been kicking my butt, however I've read through the replies. I will say, that learning about blupider was eye opening for direction. Why can't the first NPC you talk to say something along the lines of, "if you get lost, look to the sky."

I'm pretty sure one of the early ranger quests mention this explicitly.

I still feel strongly about the quest log spelling some things out. Quest giver's name, and location, written in the text, so you know where to go. Not a map icon, or anything like that. And a continuous log of what you have finished rather than the finished quest steps vanishing.

There's a lot of room for improvement here I agree.

I still feel trial accounts need to have access to the class specializations. This is one point I continuously see brought up in both streams, and in game. You may have a general feel of the game by the time you are level 6, but you don't have a feel of the class. As soon as an unsure, new player can try something new on the hotbar, they are hit with a paywall. This is a massive turnoff. Honestly, why not just give access to the 2nd region and make leaving northreach the barrier instead of the city.

We have to remember that we're talking about a free trial. Northreach has mobs up to level 13, which could be used to level up to maybe level 20? Compare that to Newhaven Valley which has mobs up to level 6, which could maybe get you to 13? So when considering giving away ~25% or ~40% of the levels for free it's not all that surprising that we went with the lower value.

The situation gets even more complex when we start considering the lack of natural barriers; if we open Northreach to free trials then there are none to be had. Instead of a door you cannot click there is an open path that you simply cannot pass? And do we allow players into CV2? Because if so, then mobs go up to level 16, which could potentially level you to 23, which is now ~46% of the available levels. And if we disallow CV2 then how is that going to feel when the player is grouping with friends and everyone can enter the zone except for them?

At the end of the day the zone layouts, specializations, etc, were NOT designed for a free trial in mind. We have done free weekends in the past which allowed folks to explore the entire game, but they just weren't cutting it when it came to bringing new players into the game at a frequency we had hoped for. When implementing our free trial we went with natural barriers which we hoped would give the players a taste of the game not the class. The other options explored were some sort of time or level limit, but we felt both of those options were far too limiting and felt very artificial when compared to the current implementation.

 

[Espysix]

The free trial is the only chance there is to make an impression. The game is about grouping. I think a level cap is a better barrier than the city. For instance, a level cap of 10, or 12, you have a chance to see the class, and the next zone. But more importantly, that is someone else to group with. So the existing player-base is really the primary beneficiary. I fully understand the game was not designed with the trial in mind, but it exists now for a reason.

Even if someone does not purchase the game but does level to the next zone, was it loss in the end? The population was higher, and there was a larger pool of potential grouping.

At the end of the day, I can only offer my thoughts of what would have made things easier. I was not the only one to start this game when I did but, I am the only one that's still left. What is here is great, and the latest update has been a wonderful success amongst the current player-base. I just want to offer my thoughts on what would have helped me, and may help others who stumbled upon this game without any prior outside influence or knowledge.

 

[MarcusFromOz]

If there was a level cap of 10, I would also suggest a gathering/crafting profession cap of 12.
(12 allows you to get the 3rd gathering/crafting profession)

While that would be 20% of the levels, it's really also 1% of the levelling.
Without thinking it through entirely for issues, it's not a bad idea.

 

[nikgervae]

I'm pretty sure one of the early ranger quests mention this explicitly.

The third NPC I talked to in the start zone, right at the round tower, mentions how to find north after you do the quest to kill 12 beasts.

 

[Undone]

It's a moving goal post; no matter where we end the trial someone is going to think it should be more. While I appreciate the discussion and will continue considering the best way to improve things we simply don't have time to revamp the trial process right now with everything else on our plate. I think the current setup gives players a good taste of what our game is all about while also leaving them wanting more.

 

[Keiban]

I think the current setup gives players a good taste of what our game is all about while also leaving them wanting more.

I may not remember correctly (and I'm forced to an old PC where I can't check) but I think you can't see (all) of the skills a class will get before you choose them.
So maybe some tweaks to the UI so you can preview every class's skills would already go a long way.

 

[Undone]

I may not remember correctly (and I'm forced to an old PC where I can't check) but I think you can't see (all) of the skills a class will get before you choose them.
So maybe some tweaks to the UI so you can preview every class's skills would already go a long way.

That's a good point. Any ideas on how/where to display that? Right now the spec tooltip is really just a big ol' tooltip with the names of the skills and a description.

 

[Keiban]

That's a good point. Any ideas on how/where to display that? Right now the spec tooltip is really just a big ol' tooltip with the names of the skills and a description.

Here's a quick mockup:

Have a Dropdown-Button next to Base + Subclass. In this example, if I click on Knight I can choose between all Defender Subclasses, and if I click on Defender, I can choose between all Base classes (and then pick between the different subclasses of that other Base class). Maybe have a text like "Preview" on the char sheets (and in the dropdown list) that don't match your current base + subclass.
Not sure how it looks when you haven't chosen a subclass yet though.

 

[MarcusFromOz]

I may not remember correctly (and I'm forced to an old PC where I can't check) but I think you can't see (all) of the skills a class will get before you choose them.
So maybe some tweaks to the UI so you can preview every class's skills would already go a long way.

 

[Undone]

Well, we do a better job than I thought we did

 

[Keiban]

Yeah, I didn't remember it being this detailed and couldn't check it.
My "solution" may still be worth looking into, as it would work for all sub-classes at once (and not just the 3 of your current base class) and also give detailed skill tooltips including alchemy. But certainly not a high priority.