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Armor

Kenshin

New Member
There needs to be more info on this. Armor weight is way to restrictive at low level. I spent hours grinding out copper nodes to make armor, that I can't ever use apparently. So a "Warlord" is supposed to be half naked with some cloth shoes and a loincloth since, I can't wear the copper armor i was finally able to make? Ohh but, I can make better lighter armor at higher level? Well that is unhelpful, trying to grind out exp to lvl dressed like a caveman. Why even make any armor at low lvl if u can only use the yoou make at a higher level? I was having fun, until this point. It really makes me want to uninstall. I can't be the only person that this has frustrated...
 

MrDDT

Active Member
I'm not quite sure what you saying is right.

So yes you can make lighter stuff as you level up your skill. I think this is pretty good system. You can also make heavier stuff and more AC as you level up.

I think where you are getting stuck on is you think (because most games are like this) is that if you are heavy armor user, you can wear all the crappy low level gear of heavy armor in all your slots. This game isn't like that, you don't get to wear them on at the start even of the crappy gear. You have to pick which slots you want that provide good stuff, and also which items you got to deal with that give you the best choices of that armor.

Each class/subclass have diff armor weights they can do based on what you pick. Like I'm a support class and I'm wearing a metal chest but nothing else, because I got a good chest and the weight is high and the AC is high, the stats are good and it's so heavy I can't wear anything else but cloth.
While other support people will wear 3 other metal armor pieces because they have good stats that are equal to my stuff one item. It's about choices, moreover, if you look at my friend who is a DEF/Knight has all 4 of our pieces and wearing all of them because they have the weight to do it.
 

Kenshin

New Member
Not being able to wear more than 1 piece of armor is kind of lame.... why even add other slots? Wtf is the point of armor if it can't protect you? Why would you only ever be able to wear 1-3 pieces of it? That just makes NO sense and is also a deal breaker. imput.gifWhat a waste of $50... The game was enjoyable to this point. I don't get why not being able to wear a full set of armor was a step they took to not be like other games, that seems like a stupid reason to make that decision....
 
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MrDDT

Active Member
Not sure I'm understanding you.
You can wear way more than 1 piece of armor. In fact you can wear all the slots of armor, it just requires you to get them crafted or dropped, you can't wear the heaviest armor as a DPS with all the slots.
People can wear a full set of armor.

I think there is some confusion here.
 

Kenshin

New Member
No confusion. It's dumb that you have to mix and match like a hobo, instead of just being able to wear a full set of plate. I spent all that time, and I can't even wear the chest piece by itself... still stuck in starter gear thats just some pants, crap boots, and a shirt. Tried making my own, but can't wear any of it. I would have to keep changing professions over and over to not be naked. Seems counter productive...
 

MrDDT

Active Member
I'm not sure what games you've played where people craft all their gear at level 1 and can gather everything and craft everything right out of the gate.

Just FYI you can make more than 1 char and can gather with them too.

I've never ever played a game where at low level you get all your armor and can wear a full set of plate.
 

AdricLives

Administrator
Stormhaven Studios
For testing many of the recipes have been available from lvl 1, so crafting yourself into too much armor weight is currently possible. In many cases you could potentially wear one piece of heavier armor, but the lighter slots should be available first and as you level you fill out more and more of your slots.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
One of the things we wanted to do when designing our armor system is provide as much flexibility to the player as possible. This mean not adding role restrictions to armor, but instead trying to find another way to restrict what people could wear based on their role. This is where the armor weight system comes into play. Each slot has a fixed armor weight range for equipped items. Each role has an armor weight allowance that when exceeded imposes pretty strict penalties. Ideally this would lead to visual variety, but also some difficult decisions you as a player have to make about what to equip, and what to not equip. The system is a bit unorthodox yes, but we also feel that it grants the player a great deal of flexibility in the armor that they wear.

We also recognize that we are fighting an uphill battle in a way. Traditional MMOs have trained players to "fill every slot" if they have the equipment to do so. We are going against the grain here and allowing you to pick and choose which slots to fill as you level up (you unlock more armor weight as you level).
 

MrDDT

Active Member
I love the armor system, its different.

My issues come with balance and effectiveness of what does what. I feel like at these low levels we are often fighting over +1 to +10 AC on good item choices, and it doesn't feel like it does much of anything. Maybe higher levels it will feel like AC is effective.

I had someone tanking the other day that had 200AC vs someone that had 350AC and I was the healer and I couldn't really tell the difference (granted the level was different the 200AC was +1 level higher) but it seems like level makes more of a diff than anything else by far.

Next issue as stated here before is simply the choices in what I can use or not of the side bonuses on the armor slots are very very limited. I know this is still be worked on but still needs to be said.
I also see a lot of "combat movement speed" bonuses on armor (and weapons) and I feel like are you guys trying to tell us something? Because this needs like its very niche bonus and I almost would call it worthless for most people and really worthless being that's normally +1 to +5 only.
 

AdricLives

Administrator
Stormhaven Studios
and I feel like are you guys trying to tell us something?

By restricting which bonuses can appear on which slots we can grant you more to those bonuses on items without worrying about unbalancing things. For example if we let pen be available for every slot then items could only have 5 pen at max level because you have something like 22 equipment slots and cap pen. If we want a good dynamic range across 50 levels of gear then we need a larger range, like 5-20 or even 5-25 pen per piece, so that means only 4/5 pieces can have pen, which is why outer armor often exhibits stats like Combat Movement.

I know it's not "sexy" but a lot of the bonus stats on armor are... armor class, or reduced armor weight. These don't show up as blue numbers so I think they often get overlooked and just the 2 combat movement or whatever that is being focused on.
 

MrDDT

Active Member
But CMS is on weapons and armor and stuff all over the place and then nothing else as a bonus. It's weird like are we meant to be stacking CMS a lot or something?
I think the armor bonus, should be in a special list on the left like +hit etc are, because that way people know that is coming from the bonus of the mats used or from the named fuction or whatever.
Same with lower weight, maybe put a -1 weight in there so people know that's what it's coming from.
I just feel that it seems bad when you get a named armor drop and most of them are only combat movement speed.
 

AdricLives

Administrator
Stormhaven Studios
I'm not sure if I can address your concerns around it. Combat Movement is one of ~4 stats we've allocated to outer armor pieces. Combat Movement, Resilience, Armor and Armor Weight. It would definitely help if you could see how the armor weight and armor are "improved" but they aren't added like normal bonus stats so separating the number back out from the item isn't so straight forward.
 

Xeen

Member
I'm not sure if I can address your concerns around it. Combat Movement is one of ~4 stats we've allocated to outer armor pieces. Combat Movement, Resilience, Armor and Armor Weight. It would definitely help if you could see how the armor weight and armor are "improved" but they aren't added like normal bonus stats so separating the number back out from the item isn't so straight forward.

Are hoods an exception? They can get various resist bonuses like a belt or inner armor piece, but are also considered an outer armor slot. I think heavy armor should have various resists on it (mainly damage resist) to make it more effective.

On a different note: I think if people had more of the game's mechanics explained to them + know what its like even at level 10+, then armoring weight and filling slots wouldn't be such a huge deal:
-Only a tank really needs to worry about AC/defenses in a party the vast majority of the time, others can wear lighter armor for different bonuses (I love cms, not everyone else does, resilience is worthless imo... unless you could get 100 of it lol!)
-Armor limits increase and often you can find lighter weight, higher ratio pieces as you progress
-AC does help, but 'levels' are a huge factor in receiving and dealing damage (stick to fighting blues if you can, perfect sweet spot, greens and whites are ok, sometimes yellows, AVOID RED!)
-Damage resist is far more valuable than AC
-AC mechanics are largely unknown to most people, and the benefits of more AC are not well-noticed
-choosing appropriate prey based on levels and mechanics is very important

I remember you said you were working on a compendium. That should help a lot... if people read it! I will be happily soaking in its contents for sure.

It takes a certain type of 'adventuring spirit' to challenge the wilds and learn the ways of the world. Doing so can be very rewarding if you find your path, but those who lack this trait could easily be turned off to the game as is. I can see how spoon-feeding every bit of information could ruin the experience and at the same time, not having a clue starting out is just as perilous.
 

AdricLives

Administrator
Stormhaven Studios
Are hoods an exception?

Yup this slot specifically can be either Outer armor (armor weight) or Inner Armor (No armor weight) and each version has its own set of allocated stats.

I try to avoid telling people how to play in what I would write up, so I'm not sure I'd give advice like that. But more just to accurately describe what Resilience is or how Physical Resist differs from Armor Absorption so they can make decisions for themselves on what is best.
 

Xeen

Member
I try to avoid telling people how to play in what I would write up, so I'm not sure I'd give advice like that. But more just to accurately describe what Resilience is or how Physical Resist differs from Armor Absorption so they can make decisions for themselves on what is best.
Sounds like a good balance. Looking forward to it.
 

MrDDT

Active Member
This makes me really sad. I feel like this really hurts me as a player to see such stats on loot drops and crafted.
 

RazorBrains

Active Member
There needs to be more info on this. Armor weight is way to restrictive at low level. I spent hours grinding out copper nodes to make armor, that I can't ever use apparently. So a "Warlord" is supposed to be half naked with some cloth shoes and a loincloth since, I can't wear the copper armor i was finally able to make? Ohh but, I can make better lighter armor at higher level? Well that is unhelpful, trying to grind out exp to lvl dressed like a caveman. Why even make any armor at low lvl if u can only use the yoou make at a higher level? I was having fun, until this point. It really makes me want to uninstall. I can't be the only person that this has frustrated...
This is a function of Armor to Weight ratios on other types of gear not being balanced properly IMO.

If there is armor at level 10 that is metal that is 1 to 3 ratio like 25weight to 75AC metal chest. Why would anyone use the leather equivalent that is 20 weight to 45 armor or worse. Classes are already being penalized with low armor weight but also there is no cloth/leather chest/legs/helm/vambraces with the same ratio for them to wear. If there were say cloth chest 5w to 15ac and leather chest 10w to 30ac. Then various classes could mix and match their pieces to make a full set within the armor weight restriction. This way people would actually be running around with most of the slots filled with something rather than being naked.

As it is now, its better for a level 10 healer to wear a 25wt to 75AC METAL chest piece with a 5wt to 15AC METAL vambrace and run everything else naked. Why even wear leather at all that's not boss loot. Even most boss loot leather is worse than this. So pretty much every class is going for the 25wt to 75ac METAL chest piece regardless of class and leaving all other pieces naked unless they can fill those spots with 0weight items.

I would make all armor pieces cloth/leather/metal have the same weight ratios. Then if you want to change the stats on an item from its base, add that as a STAT + or - bonus. This way if you want to have that same chest instead of 75ac be 100ac, it would have +25 AC as a stat bonus. This would allow people to recognize it was special. It would also be easier to balance other piece stats later with +pen +hit +heals +haste or whatever you decide to put on it.

The same goes above with armor weight, I would add the reduced armor weight on a piece as a + or - stat, so that people can see it has intrinsic properties that are special. Right now it looks so boring and plain.

On top of this, there the stats being added to the game are not good which is another post entirely.
 

RazorBrains

Active Member
I'm not sure if I can address your concerns around it. Combat Movement is one of ~4 stats we've allocated to outer armor pieces. Combat Movement, Resilience, Armor and Armor Weight. It would definitely help if you could see how the armor weight and armor are "improved" but they aren't added like normal bonus stats so separating the number back out from the item isn't so straight forward.
On a healer, why do these even matter to me really. Geez what horrible game loot stats. I think a lot needs to be done in this area, because this is very bad having these 4 stats only. I really hope you have plans to add more different stats to armor pieces in the future so that loot will seem better than currently. Like +heals, +cast time, +range, +stamina, +stamina recovery, +regen, +crit chance etc... Doing this would really make drops seem much better and offer people something to look forward too. Additionally if these were random so any piece in the game had a random chance of dropping/crafting loot with various modifiers that would be huge upgrade to the current system. This way everyone doesn't have the EXACT same thing.