The Defender: Juggernaut / Knight / Marshal Part 1

[Kittik]

Playing a defender is the choice of those who want to be in the middle of and in someway direct the battle. Not necessarily a control class in the classic sense of the word, but having dominion over which mobs a group is fighting and the ability to say which mob is of a higher priority of physical control is the primary conscience decision of a person playing a Defender. (Disclaimer* Words are used in abilities without an explanation of what those words mean in terms of what it's going to do to a mob, or for a player, so grading those abilities is based on a guess of what a word in an ability would mean.)

Embers Adrift (EA) gives us three choices.

Juggernaut which is a Defender with a flair of Control (or Striker, I can't tell)
Knight which is a Defender with a bit of Support
Marshal which is a Defender with a degree of Striker (or Control, I can't tell)

Juggernaut. Group play: The tank you want for your group. Should hold aggro well vs. multiple mobs and will put out some damage. Also can do a decent job mitigating damage during the course of group play. Solo play: Tanks in general will be dull in solo play, and a juggernaut will be no exception here. Solo, you will only be pressing 3 buttons most of the time and No Time to Die every 5 mins. Good MT. Ok OT. Pairs well with a Marshal as OT. Overall Class Grade: B-

Solid Damage ability. No Threat, but none of the outgoing damage can be mitigated by armor, so the mob receives all damage. Grade: B-

AoE aggro ability. 20 second cool down means this is a very viable way to keep aggro on multiple mobs. Grade: B+

Damage mitigation ability. +100 to Resilience. (Again, not sure what Resilience means in this game, but I'll assume it means something along the lines of damage mitigation). 10 seconds of +100 to some type of damage mitigation is legit, 5 min reuse means it must be powerful. Grade: B+

AoE damage doing ability on a 20 second cool down is nice. This is 6 stamina to mob hit per swing, putting this as the most efficient ability for damage amongst defenders. Ignores the mobs defenses, so this ability will probably do some good damage. Grade: B+

Doesn't resist Daze or Fear. +100 to resist other effects. 1 hit wonder. 1 min cool down. This is a dud of an ability until we start seeing mobs (raids) where the strategic use of this would be needed. Right now, until mobs telegraph their abilities it's nearly useless. Cast this before a fight as a 'just in case type of ability', but even then your only doing this every 2nd or 3rd fight. Grade: D

+80 to damage mit is nice, 20 second reuse is nice. Just gotta wait until level 40...lol Grade: A

Knight. Group play: Knights are designed as a back up tank and a back up to the back up healer...kinda. They can't heal, but they can, kinda, mitigate some damage to a single target every 30 seconds. Unfortunately, They will always pull aggro from the other tanks because all of their damage doing abilities generate agrro. They have the best single target threat of any tank. It's poorly designed class in terms of group play because it contradicts itself. No AoE abilities. Solo play: I can't say they'd be much different than the other two tanks, but with Knight you get 4 buttons instead of three, so there's that. Decent MT. Bad OT. Pairs well with Marshal as OT. Overall Class Grade: C

Direct target threat generating attack. Amongst the lower end of DPS attacks for the Defender class. Grade: B

As a second tank, you should constantly be putting this on the MT, however the healers will not thank you because it really isn't going to make any difference. But on a 1 minute recast timer, the lack of gratitude will be missed less often than if this were a more frequently cast ability. Grade: D

A decent ability in a group if you get aggro, but remember, you don't want aggro because then you can't use our amazing ability Protect! It's a shame you're the OT in groups because you'll rarely get to use this ability. Grade: B (when you get to use it) D (because you seldom will).

You biggest damage doing ability. Direct threat generation. What you're bashing with, IDK, but I'm not going to say anything because this is the only decent ability a Knight currently has. Grade: B+

Continue reading here:

The Defender: Juggernaut / Knight / Marshal Part 2

Please see The Defender: Juggernaut / Knight / Marshal Part 1. Continuing on from that thread: Knight: This is an always on ability or at least thats the theory. It has a +20 (so I think this is only 20% chance to work), so with those low of odds at it's current iteration, it's an ability...

forums.embersadrift.com

 

[Kaeolin]

Well Said Kittik. I think the biggest takeaway here is we don't really know what impact some abilities have. The ability effect needs to be written in a way to easily explain what it does. +5 to hit? +50 to defense...etc. There's a lot of variables behind that scenes that we just don't understand, mostly because we don't know the calculations that occur during a fight. Do we need to know? I don't think we need the specifics, but simpler effects would help I think.

 

[Rev]

Usually +5 or + whatever is %. So a +50 to defense is a 50% increase.

Jugg is Def/Striker. They just hit stuff. Marshal has the CC so is the Def./Controller. I would argue with you about which def. is best. Some would say Knight is best single target tank. If I come across a big bad named, I won't mind at all if the Knight is tanking it. Some could consider Jugg as best off-tank. They have more dps skills and have an AoE taunt to pick up adds. Just a matter of perspective really.

Resilience is dice roll. When you hit zero hps it rolls to see if you go unconscious or not. Least that is basically what Undone said in the Discord about it.

 

[Kittik]

Ehh, Marshal is best OT. AoE stun, AoE taunt. If adds need managed, it'd be a Marshal. And I did mention Knights have the best single target threat. But again, the class is a mess. They make it Def/Sup but then try to make it best Single target threat. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Rev]

I consider the Knight to be closest to w hat you would call an EQ Paladin. They were decent at single target tanking (especially if undead) and had some buffs, heals and things to support their party. I am waiting for the Knight to get a "Lay of Hands" type skill at higher level to solidify the support side of their class.

 

[Xeen]

The Knight (DEF/sup) appears to be currently the best true tank with apparently the best threat generation and armoring weight limit + SER and other defense mechanics built into the class

Marshal (DEF/con) is a great cc off-tank and can work well as main too, perhaps even best for specific situations when additional enemies, damage types, and mechanics are added to the game.

Juggernaut (DEF/str) is more of a beefy damage dealer which may allow for holding agro, but appears to have the worst defenses and threat generation of the three and thus will exhaust SUP stamina quickly.

Hard to say definitely with the game changing so much and my limited lower-level experience + not seeing juggy in action, but I'd argue:
-for physical fights and certain types of status threats: Knight is your best main tank
-for elemental threats and other types of threats: Marshal is your best main tank, does quite well vs physical too, EXCELLENT at cc'ing multiple mobs and playing OT/backup tank, so pair with a Knight as MT to allow Marshall to kite and cc as OT
-for keeping a single target busy as an off-tank with a lot of hp and not requiring heals for awhile: Juggernaut will do a good job until the party deals with the main target and the main tank takes over, might also pair well as MT + Marshall as OT if they can hold agro off of SUP and STR

Never a bad idea to have two tanks as mobs can cc one and then the other is there to handle things and protect squishies.

 

[blackhalo]

Since Juggernaut plays like an AoE tank I would say Brace or whatever defense buff they got should mitigate flat damage. What that means is it will say absorb 30 damage flat out. If there is 30 damage incoming from 3 mobs you would take 0 damage. In the case of % damage reduction, let's say you mitigate 50% with Brace, then you still take 15 damage from every 3 mobs making it a total of 45 damage. With damage absorption it works out better for AoE tanking.

 

[Inqr]

Playing a defender is the choice of those who want to be in the middle of and in someway direct the battle. Not necessarily a control class in the classic sense of the word, but having dominion over which mobs a group is fighting and the ability to say which mob is of a higher priority of physical control is the primary conscience decision of a person playing a Defender. (Disclaimer* Words are used in abilities without an explanation of what those words mean in terms of what it's going to do to a mob, or for a player, so grading those abilities is based on a guess of what a word in an ability would mean.)

Embers Adrift (EA) gives us three choices.

Juggernaut which is a Defender with a flair of Control (or Striker, I can't tell)
Knight which is a Defender with a bit of Support
Marshal which is a Defender with a degree of Striker (or Control, I can't tell)

Juggernaut. Group play: The tank you want for your group. Should hold aggro well vs. multiple mobs and will put out some damage. Also can do a decent job mitigating damage during the course of group play. Solo play: Tanks in general will be dull in solo play, and a juggernaut will be no exception here. Solo, you will only be pressing 3 buttons most of the time and No Time to Die every 5 mins. Good MT. Ok OT. Pairs well with a Marshal as OT. Overall Class Grade: B-
View attachment 1937
Solid Damage ability. No Threat, but none of the outgoing damage can be mitigated by armor, so the mob receives all damage. Grade: B-
View attachment 1938
AoE aggro ability. 20 second cool down means this is a very viable way to keep aggro on multiple mobs. Grade: B+
View attachment 1939
Damage mitigation ability. +100 to Resilience. (Again, not sure what Resilience means in this game, but I'll assume it means something along the lines of damage mitigation). 10 seconds of +100 to some type of damage mitigation is legit, 5 min reuse means it must be powerful. Grade: B+
View attachment 1940
AoE damage doing ability on a 20 second cool down is nice. This is 6 stamina to mob hit per swing, putting this as the most efficient ability for damage amongst defenders. Ignores the mobs defenses, so this ability will probably do some good damage. Grade: B+
View attachment 1941
Doesn't resist Daze or Fear. +100 to resist other effects. 1 hit wonder. 1 min cool down. This is a dud of an ability until we start seeing mobs (raids) where the strategic use of this would be needed. Right now, until mobs telegraph their abilities it's nearly useless. Cast this before a fight as a 'just in case type of ability', but even then your only doing this every 2nd or 3rd fight. Grade: D
View attachment 1942
+80 to damage mit is nice, 20 second reuse is nice. Just gotta wait until level 40...lol Grade: A

Knight. Group play: Knights are designed as a back up tank and a back up to the back up healer...kinda. They can't heal, but they can, kinda, mitigate some damage to a single target every 30 seconds. Unfortunately, They will always pull aggro from the other tanks because all of their damage doing abilities generate agrro. They have the best single target threat of any tank. It's poorly designed class in terms of group play because it contradicts itself. No AoE abilities. Solo play: I can't say they'd be much different than the other two tanks, but with Knight you get 4 buttons instead of three, so there's that. Decent MT. Bad OT. Pairs well with Marshal as OT. Overall Class Grade: C
View attachment 1943
Direct target threat generating attack. Amongst the lower end of DPS attacks for the Defender class. Grade: B
View attachment 1944
As a second tank, you should constantly be putting this on the MT, however the healers will not thank you because it really isn't going to make any difference. But on a 1 minute recast timer, the lack of gratitude will be missed less often than if this were a more frequently cast ability. Grade: D
View attachment 1945
A decent ability in a group if you get aggro, but remember, you don't want aggro because then you can't use our amazing ability Protect! It's a shame you're the OT in groups because you'll rarely get to use this ability. Grade: B (when you get to use it) D (because you seldom will).
View attachment 1946
You biggest damage doing ability. Direct threat generation. What you're bashing with, IDK, but I'm not going to say anything because this is the only decent ability a Knight currently has. Grade: B+

Continue reading here:

The Defender: Juggernaut / Knight / Marshal Part 2

Please see The Defender: Juggernaut / Knight / Marshal Part 1. Continuing on from that thread: Knight: This is an always on ability or at least thats the theory. It has a +20 (so I think this is only 20% chance to work), so with those low of odds at it's current iteration, it's an ability...

forums.embersadrift.com

Since Juggernaut plays like an AoE tank I would say Brace or whatever defense buff they got should mitigate flat damage. What that means is it will say absorb 30 damage flat out. If there is 30 damage incoming from 3 mobs you would take 0 damage. In the case of % damage reduction, let's say you mitigate 50% with Brace, then you still take 15 damage from every 3 mobs making it a total of 45 damage. With damage absorption it works out better for AoE tankin

Your very off on your analysis. Did you look at the Tanks armor values? Jugg maxes out the same as a Berzerker DPS and some other classes at 45. It has the highest DPS of the tanks, definitely NOT Main Tank.

Marshal has an ability called "Halt" it is great AOE CC, that and a higher armor value of 50 makes them the preferred Off-Tank.

Knight has the highest armor value at 55 and best threat generation on a single mob. Why? Because they are meant to tank the hardest mob. The ability "Protect" is put on whoever pulls aggro the most. Could be the Main Healer, the highest DPS or to assist the Off-Tank.

You can actually roll with all three tanks in a group effectively. Knight Main Tank, Marshal Off-Tank with AOE CC for bad pulls and Jugg as a tanky DPS with armor bypassing abilities that can Off-Tank single mobs. Add 2 different Healers, Dualist as Main Heal and Warlord for stamina song. Then finish off with Brigand for more CC and good single target DPS for boss burns.

A very safe and effective party.

 

[Inqr]

Your very off on your analysis. Did you look at the Tanks armor values? Jugg maxes out the same as a Berzerker DPS and some other classes at 45. It has the highest DPS of the tanks, definitely NOT Main Tank.

Marshal has an ability called "Halt" it is great AOE CC, that and a higher armor value of 50 makes them the preferred Off-Tank.

Knight has the highest armor value at 55 and best threat generation on a single mob. Why? Because they are meant to tank the hardest mob. The ability "Protect" is put on whoever pulls aggro the most. Could be the Main Healer, the highest DPS or to assist the Off-Tank.

You can actually roll with all three tanks in a group effectively. Knight Main Tank, Marshal Off-Tank with AOE CC for bad pulls and Jugg as a tanky DPS with armor bypassing abilities that can Off-Tank single mobs. Add 2 different Healers, Dualist as Main Heal and Warlord for stamina song. Then finish off with Brigand for more CC and good single target DPS for boss burns.

A very safe and effective party.

EDIT: In fact, the disparity between Jugg and the other two tanks is even greater. Jugg Armor-45, Marshal Armor-55, Knight Armor-65