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Feedback After 21 Levels of Duelist

Rydogg

Member

What I like:​

- The concept of the duelist, offering support by way of increased party damage
- Combined Strike. This is a great ability, with low stamina cost and great return on damage, especially in longer fight when it runs the duration.


What I don't like:​

- Triage: As far as stamina efficiency goes, this is top tier, however in a typical group setting with a proper tank holding aggro, this has no value, as no-one else is taking damage. I found the likelihood of this situation was so uncommon, I didn't even have it on my bar since we only have 6 slots, and it makes more sense to slot an ability that would come into use more often. Early on, in tank-less groups, this ability found more use, but I feel like in the setting of a launched game where everyone is likely to be grouped up, this will not get its chance to shine.

- Disengage: Suffers from the same non-use scenario as Triage. I found that in a typical group setting past level 15, there was rarely a need for this, and it didn't makes sense to even slot it on the hotbar for that rare occasion.

- Weak Point: I use it, only because its an attack, but the damage resist debuff doesn't feel spectacular and a little behind compared to similar debuffs given to the warlord and sentinel. This might just need to be buffed by a few percent to be in line with the warlord and sentinel debuffs.

- Serration : Love the idea of this ability, but in practice, it just feels very burdensome to use, having to constantly reapply for 5 seconds, only to see it proc 4-5 times. This is especially annoying as pulls in the group become more spaced out, and I find myself having to chase down the striker to apply to their weapon.

Suggestions:​

- Remove Triage and replace with an attack that places a reactive heal debuff on the target that provides healing when hit. This would provide a group heal of sorts, and be inline with the style of play the duelist is supposed to be. This would also allow this skill to be used when both solo or grouped, whereas Triage currently has no use solo, unless you're really into being incredibly wasteful with your stamina pool.

- Allow Serration to last until the 30 charges have expired, or simply last much longer, or be an aura of some sort.
 
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RazorBrains

Active Member

Suggestions:​

- Remove Triage and replace with an attack that places a reactive heal debuff on the target that provides healing when hit. This would provide a group heal of sorts, and be inline with the style of play the duelist is supposed to be. This would also allow this skill to be used when both solo or grouped, whereas Triage currently has no use solo, unless you're really into being incredibly wasteful with your stamina pool.

I really like this suggestion. This would work well with other healer classes too. This really needs some thought because I think this idea would be a very good spell for the class as long as its balanced properly.

I always thought Triage in this game was not a good spell, and its hard to really balance. Currently Triage is rarely useful if the group is doing what they are supposed to be doing in regards to CC/Tanking.
 

Kittik

Well-Known Member
A lot of abilities on many classes need to be looked at more closely.

Many of the abilities are just not fun or like Rydogg said are completely un-needed and un-used.

Many of the abilities need to be looked at and asked, is this a fun engaging experience for a player? What is a player doing during a fight and will this ability be something they'd use. If not why?
 

Xeen

Member
Triage is AMAZING for reviving a downed party on the fly, as it has 0% movement penalty during execution, AoE hits all nearby, requires no target selection. I get what you are saying about it not being super useful most of the time when usually only the tank is taking damage, but there are time when the rest of the party takes damage for various reasons. A strong Warlord hymn is usually enough to deal with random bits of damage the party takes and will greatly mask the benefit of Triage.

Isn't disengage an attack too? I forget


Can't comment on serration, didn't play duelist that far. I do not think Triage should be changed or removed though, there is so much of the game we have not seen yet.

Have you met Mr sawtooth bunny yet? You will want an aoe burst heal for when the party fails to notice the 'fun' in time :p I suspect there are more things to come that will make it much more worthwhile to have.
 

Nfab35

Active Member
Careful when asking to remove things. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Triage could very well come in handy in grp situations with ae dmg etc in order to keep everyone up.
 

RazorBrains

Active Member
Triage is AMAZING for reviving a downed party on the fly, as it has 0% movement penalty during execution,

LOL how often is this even happening? This doesn't even justify its existence at all. In fact usually its Tanks/Healers dieing before the rest of the party. So how is your entire party dead if you are a healer. Yeah this is a non factor.
 

MrDDT

Active Member
Yeah it's "Amazing for reviving a downed party" or you can just be another healer and not have a downed party in the first place because you can heal.

Clearly the skill needs a buff. Xeen hasn't even played the class either.

So in the extremely rare cases you have a party almost wipe and a few people are down it might be good for that. Assuming you had it on your bar ready and not using other better skills.
 

Xeen

Member
LOL how often is this even happening? This doesn't even justify its existence at all. In fact usually its Tanks/Healers dieing before the rest of the party. So how is your entire party dead if you are a healer. Yeah this is a non factor.
You can use it to rescue others, such as when your party is in the same vicinity of another downed party.... poof. Magic.
 

Xeen

Member
Yeah it's "Amazing for reviving a downed party" or you can just be another healer and not have a downed party in the first place because you can heal.

Clearly the skill needs a buff. Xeen hasn't even played the class either.

So in the extremely rare cases you have a party almost wipe and a few people are down it might be good for that. Assuming you had it on your bar ready and not using other better skills.
Between the forums and discord you are bordering on harassment with directly targeted attacks at me and not at an idea. You need to stop.

Additionally, things you are saying are patently false.

I've told you many times and you know for a fact that I started playing as Defender Marshall (13) with my random nooby party that trained bears and struggled at times. I made it a point to group with anyone who wanted to party up an have some fun, not trying to min/max anything or play 'the meta' and rush as fast as I could to any goal. After that I tried Support Duelist (10), then my last character is Striker Warden (23) which I believe suits my style the best.

I have actually been in CV when another group needed aid + think about when this game has MANY players and stop being so 'narrow minded' as you keep accusing me. It's kindof hypocritical.

I think Duelist Triage is a good skill, so I am defending it. It is different and has a place where it is most effective. It is not as effective as other support classes' similar abilities for all situations AND THAT IS A GOOD THING, each one has a place, not 'one to rule them all'. The game has variety, yay.

The unique ability to burst out a large spot heal to the entire area without any movement penalty is impressive to me, someone who clearly values mobility. Anyone who has been in comms or heard about my build choices would know, you all had good laughs at me for my build choices... now you are complaining that I'm too effective and dont understand other classes, etc etc when I put a good package together... ridiculous.

New game, same tune.... here we go again. Nothing I haven't been through before.
 

Asbo

Well-Known Member
I agree 100% with Rydoggs post in fact I have stopped playing mine it feels useless compared to the other two healer types.
 

Xeen

Member
I agree 100% with Rydoggs post in fact I have stopped playing mine it feels useless compared to the other two healer types.
Until you fight things that do burst AoE damage (sure, limited to non-existent right now) or the entire party stabs a sawtooth and needs a big spot heal or they've bled to death and need reviving

There are mechanics and enemies and scenarios we have yet to see. I stand by my words that this skill has a place and likely that place will expand as the game does. Hymn is a hugely efficient, long duration aoe hot. Triage is the spot heal counterpart. Sentinel hot is great for 1 target only (usually the tank).
 

Asbo

Well-Known Member
There are mechanics and enemies and scenarios we have yet to see. I stand by my words that this skill has a place and likely that place will expand as the game does. Hymn is a hugely efficient, long duration aoe hot. Triage is the spot heal counterpart. Sentinel hot is great for 1 target only (usually the tank).
Thing is I get what your saying we have not seen the rest of the game and I agree with this, but currently it feels useless to me. Early on it's fine but the more levels you get it feels less effective. I'm at level 15 and will change it to play the Warlord as I have played both the Duelist and Sentinel to date.

Xeen I am glad it has someone to champion it and the points you have made are good, however I am not feeling it personally. Maybe I need to full group it a bit more as I am only using it in 3 man groups atm. For me the Warlord seems to stand head and shoulders above the rest in the full group format. I prefer playing the Sentinel too which is very one target orientated and does not perform as well in full groups. But i seem to be able to manage it fine.
 

RazorBrains

Active Member
The unique ability to burst out a large spot heal to the entire area without any movement penalty is impressive to me, someone who clearly values mobility. Anyone who has been in comms or heard about my build choices would know, you all had good laughs at me for my build choices... now you are complaining that I'm too effective and dont understand other classes, etc etc when I put a good package together... ridiculous.

Look I have never heard anyone say they thought your combat STANCE movement build was effective, if anything its the opposite.

I think the problem is when people who are playing Warden, Marshall, Warlord, Brigand are saying Duelists are fine and don't need to be balanced. CURRENTLY in this game CC, Run Speed and Heals are the most effective. Warden has 2 of 3 of these. These classes are all META. Play your Duelist to level 23 then come tell us how you think its perfectly fine. Its pretty obvious the class needs some love to balance it.
 

Kittik

Well-Known Member
I still think EACH class needs a role defining ability much earlier. I think each class should get a unique ability at level 6.
 

RazorBrains

Active Member
Xeen I am glad it has someone to champion it and the points you have made are good, however I am not feeling it personally. Maybe I need to full group it a bit more as I am only using it in 3 man groups atm. For me the Warlord seems to stand head and shoulders above the rest in the full group format. I prefer playing the Sentinel too which is very one target orientated and does not perform as well in full groups. But i seem to be able to manage it fine.

I play a sentinel at level 23, I predominantly stay in Full Groups as only healer. I actually feel its the best full healer at this stage. It definitely has a use. Although obviously a Warlord is multiple purpose so an argument can be made it is best based on its utility. Sentinel I think needs some love regarding its ability to farm/solo a quick dash/snare to escape mobs or something because its worthless from running zone to zone or farming mats. Otherwise I think Warlord and Sentinel are very balanced and both have a definite use in a group. I think a Warlord is best overall because of its ability to solo xp, solo farm mats, small group, and large group. Its very good at everything.

Duelist is good at what? Its definitely not the best solo, farmer, full group, small group or anything. This is the problem with the class, its underpowered.
 

Xeen

Member
No one saw the value of a 350R in a dogfight until I made them cry because SuperHornet = superiority fighter and that's just a racing ship, just sayin'... mobility has some clutch value

(most of you will have no clue what I'm saying)
 

Xeen

Member
Look I have never heard anyone say they thought your combat STANCE movement build was effective, if anything its the opposite.

I think the problem is when people who are playing Warden, Marshall, Warlord, Brigand are saying Duelists are fine and don't need to be balanced. CURRENTLY in this game CC, Run Speed and Heals are the most effective. Warden has 2 of 3 of these. These classes are all META. Play your Duelist to level 23 then come tell us how you think its perfectly fine. Its pretty obvious the class needs some love to balance it.
Just to check:

You are aware that Warden speed does not apply in combat and the buff takes 3 seconds to execute with a 100% speed penalty during execution, yes? (this means I need a 3-second gap time to cast)

AND the warden class-specific bonus to general non-combat movement is currently broken, only applying during combat where it is not used, yes?

I'm not running around at any more speed than any other character during combat because of 'Warden', and I am unable to use Lay during any type of kiting combat because of the root + 3s execution. In order to get a ROI from Lay's loss of 3 seconds of movement to gain a 15% bonus, I would have to run for 20 seconds (20 x 0.15 = 3)

So tell me, what specific speed advantage does Warden have in combat?? Yes, I like warden for travel speed bonus between zones and searching for materials to gather. Duh, its part of why I picked Warden. Also having the option to slot 6 attack skills is really nice, but I think the bleed sucks and Assist is not good solo.

The limited heal also breaks if you are hit once, but can sometimes be made useful when used wisely. With a 60% movement speed penalty over 2 seconds, a 1.2 second gap time is required to execute the skill AND I must not get hit for the next 8 seconds to gain full benefit.





GUESS WHAT, the duelist can heal ON THE FLY with no movement penalty, gets up to 10% bonus to cms from class, has a 2nd heal if needed (base supp, but it slows during exec), has several attacks that can be used with a plenty long-enough ranged heavy xbow and does pretty well at kiting... arguably BETTER than a duelist.

The ONE thing a Warden really has in the speed department is the fact that they can sometimes manage to activate Lay during a fight between attacks (if you get hit it gets cancelled) and then maybe outrun SOME mobs that others cannot. The warden's speed skill is not useful in combat when soloing, but you could make an argument for having a warden remain out of combat with buff up allowing other nearby party members to enter combat, fire, and then exit combat to make use of the increased speed for some exceptional kiting. Inherently, the WARDEN is not benefiting from this, as they must remain out of combat and rely on other players entirely, which is kinda lame.


I have a proposition for the dev's if they wish to take me up on it: Create an account with a level 23 Duelist and gear (so weapon types have to change) to match my Warden and let me go kite exactly the same way. Duelist will do great at it, arguably better because of the 0 movement loss triage. There is a reason I picked duelist as a support (and marshall as my tank, great cc and 2nd best armor weight)

or I supposed Boost my Duelist to 23 and I can simply gear-swap. I will need an appropriately matching weapon for the class though.

I could prove that clearly the deciding factor in this is ME, having the ability to see these mechanics, the interactions, value of stats, do math, and simulate things/anticipate outcomes + execute tactics designed for a strategy revolving around mobility and characters built for it. Duelist can do great things.

PS - If allowed to prove my case, I would like the permanent and unique title of 'Visionary'
 
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