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Discussion on speed of progression

To not have "END game" doesn't mean there will be nothing.
What we will add for lvl 50 is: more zones, more stories, more dungeons, more loot to find....
and then probably big world bosses and the like. Basically, the game continue as it started, but more challenging, more complex etc....

What we are not doing is: a brand new game starts at lvl 50. (World f Warcraft, being the best example I can find of a game that clash the leveling experience with the end game experience. The difference is huge!)

At the moment though, all of our attention is on ensuring that the leveling process is balanced and polished enough. We are adding content step by step, so you guys stop to believe that farming bunnies is the only way to lvl up your characters ;) (that was a joke )
 
Elloa said:
To not have "END game" doesn't mean there will be nothing.
What we will add for lvl 50 is: more zones, more stories, more dungeons, more loot to find....
and then probably big world bosses and the like. Basically, the game continue as it started, but more challenging, more complex etc....

What we are not doing is: a brand new game starts at lvl 50. (World f Warcraft, being the best example I can find of a game that clash the leveling experience with the end game experience. The difference is huge!)

At the moment though, all of our attention is on ensuring that the leveling process is balanced and polished enough. We are adding content step by step, so you guys stop to believe that farming bunnies is the only way to lvl up your characters ;) (that was a joke )
Click to expand...
Alright sounds good, but you know that’s what I would called endgame
Happy to ear that there will be one after all.
 
The leveling progress is fine. The only problem is, it feels slow because if you can't find a group you're either:
Gathering
Soloing 1 chevron mobs
Crafting

With that being said, you shouldn't be punished for soloing, when you're lfg for hours. Grouping to kill red (2-3 levels higher) 3 chevrons shouldn't give you less exp, it's supposed to make you feel like you can accomplish this. Any higher level red I could understand. Considering that finding people to group with is getting harder by each week, at least make it more solo friendly to get to around level 12 a little easier.

The defender and dps classes can do this fairly easy, but being a support class you're almost dependent on group play to level up.
 
csthao said:
The leveling progress is fine. The only problem is, it feels slow because if you can't find a group you're either:
Gathering
Soloing 1 chevron mobs
Crafting

With that being said, you shouldn't be punished for soloing, when you're lfg for hours. Grouping to kill red (2-3 levels higher) 3 chevrons shouldn't give you less exp, it's supposed to make you feel like you can accomplish this. Any higher level red I could understand. Considering that finding people to group with is getting harder by each week, at least make it more solo friendly to get to around level 12 a little easier.

The defender and dps classes can do this fairly easy, but being a support class you're almost dependent on group play to level up.
Click to expand...
It's not really fine though... You can spend over 2 hours at one spot with a full group killing nonstop and not get a level. Which I guess is "fine" but when it takes 10+ hours to get 4 levels for 1 skill, it feels like it takes even longer to progress with so few rewards.

EQ, DAoC, and FFXI all had different levels of progression.
EQ had passive skills to unlock with training points like meditate, double attack, dual wield, advanced spell classes (abjur etc.).
Every 4 levels pure casters got new spells but it was a handful and not just 1 ability.
DAoC had skill points to spend in different categories for customzation.
FFXI had subjobs.
There were all smaller milestones to unlock on the way to your more powerful stuff that made it feel like you were advancing more steadily.

One skill after several hours especially when you're wanting something you find more fun first feels insanely slower than any oldschool MMOs or even DnD.
This game's progression feels stagnant for large spans of time.
 
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Badger said:
I don't really enjoy how slow leveling is. I don't want to spend weeks getting to level 50 and trying to get to raiding and getting the best loot .
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So ember adrift isn’t for you because you aren’t the targeted audience, people here enjoy spending weeks to level up just let it drift along
And like 40% of the players are simply using ember to wait out pantheon : rise of the fallen, the one & only eq reincarnation

I think new world is your type of game

Seriously you can just chain do quest and get to 50 in no time and start running dungeon with others

I’m glad that Amazon has turn around the game they put in tons of effort to overhaul it
Quest line / a whole new continent / new skills

And all these endless updates without a monthly subscription, having deep pocket mother company really is different
 
Thanks for the good question.

Does XP-speed matter to me? Absolutely. The rate at wich I gain expirience determines how important each of weapon properties will be for me. How important will be next loot which has only +1 to one of the 5-6 characteristics compared to my current piece of armor. How important will be re-craft same equipment with better quality, which gives better durability. How important to use potions, food, auguments, buffs and other game systems. It can be compared to a long journey on foot or mountain climb, where every little detail counts. But it's not just datails. It's game systems and content.

One of the recent examples of bad desisions in the MMO genre is New World with its incredibly fast leveling. A lot of equipment, locations and systems were skipped by many players because they could get level after level so fast. What for? They left the game after a couple of month. But they heven't seen half of the game content and systems. They could't see it because of fast leveling. Why do you need twenty levels if you can complete them in two evening and skip most of the content? You don't need various equipment on 1-20 levels, because you get 20+ on third day. Imagine that the autors spent years building an entire city and you drove past it in a car at high speed. And guess what? They recently literally rebuilt two cities, made leveling even faster and launched dozen of brand new servers that will empty out faster than the previous ones.

Slow moving through game content is not only about respect to the author's work and enjoyment by game systems itself, what is more important it's about socialization. It's about the people who you meet on your way. You can't make connections with people if you move fast through levels and places. You can't even remember their names. So why would some gamers choose an MMO if they didn't make connections here? Is it because they are bored and need another regular game for a month or so?
 
Donald said:
  • XP SPEED. Does it matter to you?
  • ENJOYMENT How to make level progrssion a meaningful experience?
  • END GAME : Would getting to level 50 as quickly as possible be important? Are you more interested in endgame gameplay than 1-49 leveling?
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  • XP SPEED: It is a bit slow for my taste. A bit faster would make more sense. Crafting XP is also funny, for instance lvling Provisioning is easy and fast, while leveling armorsmithing feels much slower.
  • ENJOYMENT: If there is a group then the experience i great. Nowadays, I find it more difficult to find lower lvl groups. When soloing: its not that fun.
  • END GAME :I would like to see end game, not sure if I will.
 
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slow progression = longer monthly subs;)the longer it takes, the more months go by $$$$$.....it's all about addiction/money like all mmo's.
 
Atron said:
Thanks for the good question.

Does XP-speed matter to me? Absolutely. The rate at wich I gain expirience determines how important each of weapon properties will be for me. How important will be next loot ...
Click to expand...
Yes.
As I grind along (with 3 characters to go slower but wider) I can usually feel the call of what is next - the next goal.
The next area to explore, the next mob to fight, the next gathering skill, the next crafting augment, the next potion, the next tier of weapon etc. ...

It takes some time and work to get there, which makes for some satisfaction when I do.

And - along the way the next next goal often becomes clear : 'so now I have my new weapon I can hunt those new things, and soon gather that new stuff so later I can make that new thing'

It's a good pace of cyclic reward vs effort.
 
Badger said:
I don't really enjoy how slow leveling is. I don't want to spend weeks getting to level 50 and trying to get to raiding and getting the best loot .
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Sorry, but this is everything that is wrong with the newer mentality of gamers. I can't imagine thinking that expecting to get to max level in a few weeks is virtuous by any stretch of the imagination.

Devs please do not cater to this nonsense. These kinds of players want instant gratification, and then toss the game for the next shiny thing and so on. The current pace in June 2023 is very good. The game needs to be a journey where the gear turnover is meaningful and where getting one really nice piece in a dungeon crawl feels special and you're aware of the piece you got, and appreciate it.
 
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I have to agree with the above. While I think there needs to be more meaningful solo progression ( in terms of things to do when you can't find a group, ala housing/decorating/achievementing or other non combat activities), I would not want to see the XP rate heavily accelerated. Most MMOs today within a month I'm capped and therefore bored. Embers makes you work for it and that was the main appeal, I wanted something I could play long term not another 3-weekend blitz. I have little interest in "end game" or "raiding" and such, its more about being part of a community and if you stop having progression you stop having reasons to login.
 
pantheon0918 said:
I think new world is your type of game
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Well, not just New World, either. That just happens to be the latest release. Op would be statistically perfectly fine with 9 out of 10 new releases, even 99 out of 100, and that's not hyperbole. Basically just buy any MMO you happen to see and it will be likely to suit your tastes, by a large margin.
 
VelFaern said:
It's not really fine though... You can spend over 2 hours at one spot with a full group killing nonstop and not get a level. Which I guess is "fine" but when it takes 10+ hours to get 4 levels for 1 skill, it feels like it takes even longer to progress with so few rewards.

EQ, DAoC, and FFXI all had different levels of progression.
EQ had passive skills to unlock with training points like meditate, double attack, dual wield, advanced spell classes (abjur etc.).
Every 4 levels pure casters got new spells but it was a handful and not just 1 ability.
DAoC had skill points to spend in different categories for customzation.
FFXI had subjobs.
There were all smaller milestones to unlock on the way to your more powerful stuff that made it feel like you were advancing more steadily.

One skill after several hours especially when you're wanting something you find more fun first feels insanely slower than any oldschool MMOs or even DnD.
This game's progression feels stagnant for large spans of time.
Click to expand...
It gets to the point where you have to spend 5 hours just to get 14% xp. Levels 41 42 and 43 are HORRIBLE right now lol.
 
Korraz said:
It gets to the point where you have to spend 5 hours just to get 14% xp. Levels 41 42 and 43 are HORRIBLE right now lol.
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Back in my day, we got .01% of a level after a hard day of grinding, uphill both ways in the snow. Then lost it all when getting killed right before we logged off. YEARS to get to max level, just to realize the max level had risen again.
 
Korraz said:
Highlands hills is listed as a 30-40 zone on the what's next/upcoming features post, I don't see how that would help with levels 41-43
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More precisely, there will be some areas for 20+ and some areas for 40+. So I have good hope that it will be the exact solution for the 40-43.
Eventually there will be Ember Veins & Dungeons added to the zone aswell!
 
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