What's new
Embers Adrift

Register a free account today to Ignite your Adventure! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate with the Embers Adrift community. Your active account will also be the same account used to purchase, download, and login to the game.

Discussion on speed of progression

Donald

New Member
Hey guys, what are your thoughts on how fast XP progression currently is? Should it be faster / slower? Does gaining each level feel worth it? Is getting to level 50 as quickly as possible important to you?

((The creators of the other thread are being extremely toxic and hostile, and are gatekeeping...so I made this thread where everyone is welcome to speak from any perspective .))

LET’S SPEAK

  • XP SPEED. Does it matter to you?
  • ENJOYMENT How to make level progrssion a meaningful experience?
  • END GAME : Would getting to level 50 as quickly as possible be important? Are you more interested in endgame gameplay than 1-49 leveling?

Thank you for your participation
 
XP SPEED

The slow pace is perfect IMO. I'd probably not want to play this game if they made XP progression go faster, since the slow pace is a major reason why I came to play this game in the first place. I really like having to earn levels rather than having them super easy to get.

ENJOYMENT

The rewards for levels are really nice, it really makes me feel more powerful every time I level up. I appreciate that it takes 4 levels to get a new ability, since having time to learn to properly use abilities takes time, and not just getting so many new abilities that I never even get to use the old ones.

END GAME

I don't know why people are in such a rush to get to level 50. To me, the fun is in the journey to get to level 50. Once I hit maximum level in MMO's I usually quit playing, so getting to the highest level just means I will be spending less time playing this game.
 
I don't really enjoy how slow leveling is. I don't want to spend weeks getting to level 50 and trying to get to raiding and getting the best loot .
 
I don't really enjoy how slow leveling is. I don't want to spend weeks getting to level 50 and trying to get to raiding and getting the best loot .
The end game won’t even be ready in a few weeks, and there probably won’t be large scale raiding. Sounds more like Darkness Falls high-end grouping.

That being said, the leveling speed feels slightly slower than EQ’s TLE servers but much faster than, say, Project 1999. The biggest issue is the speed at which we get new abilities. Four-ish levels is a long time at this progression speed which makes you feel stagnant for a while. I thoroughly enjoy the slower pace and the limited hotbar, but it can take days to get 4 levels for people that work full time. Also I’ve noticed that it can feel slower on certain classes, like Juggernaut, simply because you more than likely picked that class for it’s hard hitting and cleaving abilities, as well as the DoTs. However, being a tank it (rightfully so) gets the tanking abilities first. Which arguably could be more fun for some people, but I’m pretty sure everyone just wants to hit hard regardless of their role.
 
  • XP SPEED. It's far too slow, probably because of a lack of content. As an old EQ player who can sit at a camp for days on end, I haven't come across an MMO so grindy. It's horrible and I would much rather we had the pace we had in beta a while ago and we were just aware that we would have to wait for the content.
  • ENJOYMENT Classic EQ kind of perfected this. It was about right. It was slow enough to feel meaningful but not to a point where it felt like a brick wall. On P99 even in the 40's, you can get roughly 1% of XP per kill. From about level 8 here you start to require 2 kills for 1% sometimes and the curve seems to go up. I have heard that some players in the mid to late 20's are leaving because it's so bad but that is just anecdotal.
  • END GAME : This would be different for everyone, but it should be the individual's choice as opposed to having the decision forced on the players because of a lack of content.

 
I agree, I think it just "feels" slow because of the lack of content. Once more stuff gets added it won't feel so tedius
 
XP SPEED: I like the slower progression myself, but I can see how it could be a turn off for some. You can spend more time getting to know your character, and it allows time for exploring the content available. Whereas, if I were leveling much faster, I would probably skip out on a lot of things like finding named creatures or exploring a map because I would just out level the area or the creatures before I got to them. It makes the whole thing feel more like an adventure I can enjoy casually.

ENJOYMENT: So far I've found it very enjoyable. I like the relaxed pace of gathering and crafting, combined with getting into groups to kill a certain creature or to just grind and chat in discord. Even just going out to farm up reagents is quite nice for me. I feel like progression already feels pretty meaningful. I don't want to play a game where I have six ability bars, or a bunch of skills I don't use, so I don't feel like I'm missing anything by not getting a new skill every level. The growth is incremental but noticeable. I think they've struck a good balance in that regard.

END GAME: For this particular game, I don't think grinding up to level cap quickly is really all that important. To me, that only really becomes a thing where there is a competitive aspect to the game. This game doesn't really have that. At least not to the degree that I feel any kind of pressure to have sleepless nights grinding so I can "keep up". Honestly I only get that pressure in pvp oriented games, or games that have large-group instanced raids that require being fully leveled and well geared. As far as I know this game doesn't currently have that, or any plans on implementing features like that. For me, end game here probably looks very similar to the leveling experience with the exception of possibly a few things well organized groups can do, but probably wouldn't do with much regularity. It reminds me of my time in UO. There really wasn't any end game to speak of. You leveled up your characters, and then you went out killing mobs to either generate money or get loot. The end game was more about generating wealth and power and not so much about completing certain achievements or milestones.
 
Honestly I'm not resubbing after this month.
I'm coming from p99 so im used to SLOW experience. But the thing with everquest is you could find a good little spot to solo, or group up and find a corner in a dungeon to pull 20-30 mobs to (before respawns). Grouping felt rewarding in both loot and experience, group comps were normally whatever you could pick up. So sometimes you would have interesting strategies to make whatever you were doing work. You also were rewarded for CHALLENGING yourself. A solid group could kill yellow/red cons and were rewarded for it with more experience.

In embers more classes are "solo friendly" but for a solo player mobs are spread out so far. Its not fun having to run 10-20 seconds between monsters...In the dark when you cant see very well. To find one more thing to kill. Then spend 10 seconds skinning it (yes I know better tools let you harvest faster).

When I would group killing anything above white cons isnt worth it because mobs get such a huge bonus to defensive stats, you start hitting for half damage. And on top of that the chevrons system makes monsters with 2-3 have way more hp as well, and they don't seem to give xp equal to the amount of extra work you put in. So the best experience I found, and of course this is just MY experience so I could be wrong was being in a group and just killing blue cons. And blue cons in a group, isnt really a challenge. "Harder" mobs arent "Harder" they just take longer, it feels more like a slog then a challenge.

Also I only got to level 15, so perhaps it changes more at higher levels but I have no clue what half the classes DID. I mean I know tanks TANK, and healers HEAL, and some classes got CC abilities where they could sleep or root or lull targets. But that seemed pretty much it? I didn't feel like we ever had to talk strategy, we just basically did the same thing no matter the party composition. Try to pull as few mobs as possible, then beat them down with weapons.

I didn't feel like I was thinking or I was never put into a situation where my fast thinking really changed anything, other then rooting something and stepping back so it didn't hit me. I just found myself annoyed at how punishing it felt to use my abilities because they all cost 10-15% stamina and regen is SLOW. Which again I'm coming from p99 so I'm USED to slow regen but I felt like the game revolves around mostly just auto attacking for all the classes for 50%+ of the time (or more). Just a bunch of dudes in the woods hitting bears with swords and flags.

So soloing was a bust, I think I mostly soloed from 13-14 and in that time I skinned over 150 bears (not including time spent killing other things I couldn't skin as well as picking up random logs off the ground for my tradeskilling). Also not including the time spent running between finding things to kill which often could very well be 10-30 seconds. Possibly longer if even just ONE or TWO people were in that same area

And grouping was a bust too. If we were fighting harder mobs xp was worse then If I soloed. If we were fighting blue mobs, xp was equal/better but damn was it completely mindless.

So I ended up getting burned out pretty quickly. Now if this wasn't a sub based game, this wouldn't be an issue. I could quit for a week or so and come back refreshed, and kill another 200 bears or whatever. But because its a sub based game I WANT to play it, but playing it for several days in a row for a few hours when I get off work just ISNT fun for me.
I feel like for people that have a solid group of static people they can play with everytime they log in THAT would be the ideal experience (and honestly from what I've gathered in my time here I believe THAT is the target audience). But I dont think realistically for most people thats something they are able to put together and or commit to, so unfortunately I think because of that this game isn't for me.
 
Honestly I'm not resubbing after this month.
I'm coming from p99 so im used to SLOW experience. But the thing with everquest is you could find a good little spot to solo, or group up and find a corner in a dungeon to pull 20-30 mobs to (before respawns). Grouping felt rewarding in both loot and experience, group comps were normally whatever you could pick up. So sometimes you would have interesting strategies to make whatever you were doing work. You also were rewarded for CHALLENGING yourself. A solid group could kill yellow/red cons and were rewarded for it with more experience.

In embers more classes are "solo friendly" but for a solo player mobs are spread out so far. Its not fun having to run 10-20 seconds between monsters...In the dark when you cant see very well. To find one more thing to kill. Then spend 10 seconds skinning it (yes I know better tools let you harvest faster).

When I would group killing anything above white cons isnt worth it because mobs get such a huge bonus to defensive stats, you start hitting for half damage. And on top of that the chevrons system makes monsters with 2-3 have way more hp as well, and they don't seem to give xp equal to the amount of extra work you put in. So the best experience I found, and of course this is just MY experience so I could be wrong was being in a group and just killing blue cons. And blue cons in a group, isnt really a challenge. "Harder" mobs arent "Harder" they just take longer, it feels more like a slog then a challenge.

Also I only got to level 15, so perhaps it changes more at higher levels but I have no clue what half the classes DID. I mean I know tanks TANK, and healers HEAL, and some classes got CC abilities where they could sleep or root or lull targets. But that seemed pretty much it? I didn't feel like we ever had to talk strategy, we just basically did the same thing no matter the party composition. Try to pull as few mobs as possible, then beat them down with weapons.

I didn't feel like I was thinking or I was never put into a situation where my fast thinking really changed anything, other then rooting something and stepping back so it didn't hit me. I just found myself annoyed at how punishing it felt to use my abilities because they all cost 10-15% stamina and regen is SLOW. Which again I'm coming from p99 so I'm USED to slow regen but I felt like the game revolves around mostly just auto attacking for all the classes for 50%+ of the time (or more). Just a bunch of dudes in the woods hitting bears with swords and flags.

So soloing was a bust, I think I mostly soloed from 13-14 and in that time I skinned over 150 bears (not including time spent killing other things I couldn't skin as well as picking up random logs off the ground for my tradeskilling). Also not including the time spent running between finding things to kill which often could very well be 10-30 seconds. Possibly longer if even just ONE or TWO people were in that same area

And grouping was a bust too. If we were fighting harder mobs xp was worse then If I soloed. If we were fighting blue mobs, xp was equal/better but damn was it completely mindless.

So I ended up getting burned out pretty quickly. Now if this wasn't a sub based game, this wouldn't be an issue. I could quit for a week or so and come back refreshed, and kill another 200 bears or whatever. But because its a sub based game I WANT to play it, but playing it for several days in a row for a few hours when I get off work just ISNT fun for me.
I feel like for people that have a solid group of static people they can play with everytime they log in THAT would be the ideal experience (and honestly from what I've gathered in my time here I believe THAT is the target audience). But I dont think realistically for most people thats something they are able to put together and or commit to, so unfortunately I think because of that this game isn't for me.
I agree with just about everything you've said here. I'm sure many of these things can be addressed eventually with tuning, MORE CONTENT, and time...BUT...right now, there is a lot that is lacking.

Variation of spots and more spots to level are definitely needed. The ability to "work with what you have" group-wise would also be nice. As someone suggested on discord, spreading out the CON range a bit would also help. I cannot count how many times in the past 3 days I've seen a 13, 15, 17, and 19 all looking for group. There's not REALLY anything that group can do that benefits them all. Making CON values spread over even 2 levels (ideally 3) would change that a lot.

  • XP SPEED. I don't mind the current rate at all. I think it works well and will continue to with adjustments and tuning, like those mentioned above.

  • ENJOYMENT I've already chimed in on this in another thread, but I think a combination of 1) mini-dings while progressing where your health/stamina are filled, 2) some form of advancement each level, whether it be stat points to allocate or a "talent-tree/AA" type system to customize your character. It doesn't even have to all be combat related. Let's wardens slow gain 5% more speed for the group, etc.

  • END GAME : There is no end game and I don't imagine there will be one any time in the near future. To each his own, but rushing in this game right now is a fool's errand. Even in the low to mid 20s, it already feels like the content is not there.
 
I don't really enjoy how slow leveling is. I don't want to spend weeks getting to level 50 and trying to get to raiding and getting the best loot .

Just for your informations we do not have raid in game. And we are not planning to add an "end game" type of activity. There is no reason to want to rush to lvl 50.

Thank you everyone for your constructive feedback. This is a very insightful thread.
 
Just for your informations we do not have raid in game. And we are not planning to add an "end game" type of activity. There is no reason to want to rush to lvl 50.

Thank you everyone for your constructive feedback. This is a very insightful thread.
This statement is getting me worried a bit………no end game means at level 50, the only option is to reroll??? it means we reach the end??? That is not what an MMORPG is about. There is a need for some kind of game loop at the end or there will be a lot of people leaving.

Few suggestions:
harder content
epic dungeons
Boss battle
Public/dynamics Events
Raids are always fun
Content needs to be hard enough so we don’t clear everything on first attempt.

What is not endgame material for me:
Helping other leveling
Rerun lower lvl dungeons
Crafting for alts
Role play
 
Just for your informations we do not have raid in game. And we are not planning to add an "end game" type of activity. There is no reason to want to rush to lvl 50.

Thank you everyone for your constructive feedback. This is a very insightful thread.
I am taking my time enjoying the game, but I am concerned if there are no "end game" activities being added to the game. I would like to understand what Stormhaven's vision is for the game when players hit max level? I do enjoy playing alts, but that only goes so far. :)
 
I'm having fun.
Not looking for an end game.
Will you sub, if at level 50 you have nothing to do?
That's cool you're having fun now and everyone in the game right now most likely......but can we have an idea of what they are planning?
I feel that my points were very constructive compared to that statement.
 
It has been my understanding, since I backed the game, that they are trying to change the mindset and create a different game. They've stated over and over no end game and that it's about the journey. MMO's for years have stressed that the game begins at max level. Embers Adrift begins at level 1. Other games, the levelling process is to teach you your skills and focuses on simply getting you to max level. There is no rush to max level. Another Post, Elloa discusses that even she's been pressured to do other content because of the idea that being efficient in levelling is the most important. The studio themselves, by nature of the content they've released, indicates they aren't supportive of folks rushing to level. All of the content that's been released shows their desire to see players spread out, having choices for content. All the development focus has been on the 10-20 content.

Now, for those of you who will comment that I'm blindly following the studio to the detriment of the game. I say this. I've provided feedback since I started playtesting. I too, have been caught in the "this is how other games do it" idea of thought. Even after release, I briefly got caught up in the rush to level. They've said over and over they are trying something different. I'm tired of being accused of resisting change simply because I answer questions based on how the studio claims they are doing things. Another poster even quoted developers, taking his time to find the exact post, and people still call us names. If you aren't happy with the game, post your feedback. However, if you don't like the answers to your questions, that's a You problem. It's up to you to decide if this game is for you. Each and every one of us has an idea of what we think the perfect game is. We each need to decide if this game checks enough boxes to qualify.

I don't know what people are looking for in a roadmap. We have a Work in Progress page that tells us what is coming and a general idea of how long before it comes. I don't know of a single game that puts out a "this is where we want to be in 1 year, 5 year, 10 year" road map.
 
Will you sub, if at level 50 you have nothing to do?
That's cool you're having fun now and everyone in the game right now most likely......but can we have an idea of what they are planning?
I feel that my points were very constructive compared to that statement.
Honestly, I don't know.
I'm playing three characters for wide progress rather than fast.
Maybe I'll get them to 50 and move on to other games, maybe I'll restart with friends.
 
So hearing you guys out, once I reach level 50, I will have to quit the game and find a new home? And don't think I'm rushing, I'm doing every bit of content I can and I really really enjoying it.
Also, I've been invested in the journey since March, I've provided lots and lots of feedback, but the "no end game" thing is something that I'm worried about in the long run.

I don't want Embers Adrift to be the next flavor of the months, but without end game I feel it will be......
 
Maybe at 50 there will be an alternative advancement/talent system that doesn't come automatically like WoW, but needs xp to be earnt for each point, like EQ.
 
Leveling feels a little slow but the issue for me is variety of monster types to kill. Do you kill bears, deer, boars and bandits for 50 levels? Nothing exciting about that. I'm giving it a chance though.
 
Leveling feels a little slow but the issue for me is variety of monster types to kill. Do you kill bears, deer, boars and bandits for 50 levels? Nothing exciting about that. I'm giving it a chance though.
What level are you? The variety comes with the journey, don't worry about that.
 
Back