Class System Needs Improvement

[floweringmind]

As a new player the class system feels totally homogenized and confusing.
When I look at the class system I just see:

Fighter DPS
Fighter Healer
Fighter Tank

Would love to see the class system fleshed out more.
SUGGESTIONS:

Expansion of skills beyond just battle skills:
hide from view
find traps
find chests
find secret doors
set trap
pick locks
map caves
teleport
charm animal
create light
detect creature
decipher runes/books
climb mountains
swimming
reduce falling damage
identify creature
run

Other classes:
Ranger
Monk
Merchant/Scholar

Low magic type of classes like:
Druid
Bard
Priest

I mention teleport as a skill because going in dungeons in this game, the group can get lost. I was stuck with a group lost in a dungeon and had to stay up till midnight. Because if I dropped I would die and lose all my stuff when I came back. I just remember EverQuest and the one ability of the class Druid was teleport. It was a life saver in these situations, because a team that was tired in real life could teleport back to safety if they had Druid in the group.

 

[azza65]

The classes do feel abit meh. The Expansion of skills would be awesome and bring more diversity to classes.
Teleport would be amazing. I cant do dungeons for the same problem you had. If it goes wrong i havnt got the time to hand around for bag runs.
Im limited to time and as a aussie player there isnt really any chance for a quick dungeon.Takes ages to form a group just to do one at my time.

 

[ZackATK]

I agree with some of your points, but I think a lot of the stuff you mentioned will come with time.

However, I disagree with giving a teleport ability to a specific class because that creates a situation where that class is basically required for basically all dungeon based content; which ruins group diversity options in terms of classes.

I would much rather see the ability to set an Ember Ring or city as a home point and have a home teleport like ability with something like a 1 hour cooldown. This has been used in many MMO’s, it would solve the specific use case you are referring to, and I don’t think it would detract from the old-school feel they are aiming for too much.

 

[MarcusFromOz]

Alchemy.

September.

 

[Elloa]

Greetings everyone,
There is things that are reasonable to expect and things that are not reasonable to expect (as they will most likely not be happening anytime soon) - That does not mean that your ideas are wrong obviously, so keep them coming (and thanks for sharing). That being said, I will be sharing with you what are your plans, and what you can expect.

YOU CAN EXPECT

1. Alchemy system
This is the next thing you can expect. We are planning to deliver the first phase in Q3. Expect end of september.
This will include the possibility for players to alternate some of their abilities with ember-imbued reagents, to give them additional/other effets and a bit of ember uumph (particle effects?). In this way, players will be able to personalise their class, and stand out in comparison to other players of the same class.
This will requiere players most likely, to accomplish a quest, and to gather embers essence (and possibly other components)

2. Class polish
This is something on going at all time. Sentinels are planed to be reworked, for example. But overall, every class can see some tweak and changes, depending what's needed for a good balance overall. Your feedback is precious. Keep your feedback about your class coming.


WE WANT IT BUT... (Do not expect it now)
1. Adventuring skills
2. More class fantasy (through combat, but also equipment and quest)
3. Pets
4. Combat animation - maybe one day, if we are succesful enough to hire new devs


UNLIKELY (Do not expect it at all before we complete the first loop of the game)
1. New classes
2. Magic/Faith users (this is not in our Lore)

 

[Colanius]

I mention teleport as a skill because going in dungeons in this game, the group can get lost. I was stuck with a group lost in a dungeon and had to stay up till midnight. Because if I dropped I would die and lose all my stuff when I came back.

I know this is not the point of the thread, but this is something that needs to be reworked. Logging out should teleport you outside the dungeon. I spent 40 minutes yesterday trying to leave a dungeon with my wife at my back yelling at me that we were late for a birthday because I couldn't just log out AND LEAVE THE GAME because I was inside a dungeon...

That needs to change, leaving literally the dungeon running back to the door (or the teleport thing near the safe spots) or not being able to log out from a game and be safe when you come back because you have real-life things to do is bad design.

In WoW if you log out and your party is disbanded you're teleported to the nearest graveyard, city, or even your hearthstone destination so you can leave the game when necessary... In Embers you're dealing with multiple issues: First you're a slave of your own group, trying to convince them all to leave because you need to leave, and second to actually leave the dungeon wasting time leaving it. It's just wrong.

 

[floweringmind]

Greetings everyone,
There is things that are reasonable to expect and things that are not reasonable to expect (as they will most likely not be happening anytime soon) - That does not mean that your ideas are wrong obviously, so keep them coming (and thanks for sharing). That being said, I will be sharing with you what are your plans, and what you can expect.

YOU CAN EXPECT

1. Alchemy system
This is the next thing you can expect. We are planning to deliver the first phase in Q3. Expect end of september.
This will include the possibility for players to alternate some of their abilities with ember-imbued reagents, to give them additional/other effets and a bit of ember uumph (particle effects?). In this way, players will be able to personalise their class, and stand out in comparison to other players of the same class.
This will requiere players most likely, to accomplish a quest, and to gather embers essence (and possibly other components)

2. Class polish
This is something on going at all time. Sentinels are planed to be reworked, for example. But overall, every class can see some tweak and changes, depending what's needed for a good balance overall. Your feedback is precious. Keep your feedback about your class coming.


WE WANT IT BUT... (Do not expect it now)
1. Adventuring skills
2. More class fantasy (through combat, but also equipment and quest)
3. Pets
4. Combat animation - maybe one day, if we are succesful enough to hire new devs


UNLIKELY (Do not expect it at all before we complete the first loop of the game)
1. New classes
2. Magic/Faith users (this is not in our Lore)

You say no Magic users but the reality is that your game already has that. For example there are skills that give buffs to health and stamina. There are healing skills. All that stuff would be considered magic. You already have ember columns which allow you to teleport (magic) with ember which is the foundation of magic in your game. Even equipment has magical properties that give magical bonuses like speed and haste. That is why I suggested low magic classes. Those would fit quite well with your theme and if you are really against the ideas faith of celestial/gods and goddess/demons, etc. Then you could go with shaman instead priest or Lay Healer. Since I know your team is small these are just suggestions for further down the road in say 1-2 years.

 

[Detritus]

I think some horizontal prog at 50 to buff/specialize/augment/flavor class abilities would be cool as part of legendary quests/dungeons/drops etc. so the continued time invested in your character continues to flesh them out and reflect the depth of your world experience/exploration.

 

[Hotwingz]

This game brings up so many conflicting emotions. A lot of "awesome!" And a lot of" why would you do that?!"

And i'll never understand the no magic classes point of view. Ember is magic. Healing is magic. Dieing and resurrecting is magic. I don't understand how you can say that there is no magic in this game.

Alchemy sounds cool but if its just going to be a jumbling of reagents to add a +4 to a skill it will not satisfy the reasons why people keep asking for magic.

As it stands right now we have the choice of melee, with a side of melee and melee for dessert. And none of them are visually distinct.

Adding a "heartstone" ability seems like the safest and most social oriented way of giving players a small qol with how dungeons work.

I appreciate it's a small dev team and I understand you can't wish things into existence.
I also don't mean to come of as blunt, just being as honest as the admin is in her replies.

 

[Elloa]

This game brings up so many conflicting emotions. A lot of "awesome!" And a lot of" why would you do that?!"

And i'll never understand the no magic classes point of view. Ember is magic. Healing is magic. Dieing and resurrecting is magic. I don't understand how you can say that there is no magic in this game.

Alchemy sounds cool but if its just going to be a jumbling of reagents to add a +4 to a skill it will not satisfy the reasons why people keep asking for magic.

As it stands right now we have the choice of melee, with a side of melee and melee for dessert. And none of them are visually distinct.

Adding a "heartstone" ability seems like the safest and most social oriented way of giving players a small qol with how dungeons work.

I appreciate it's a small dev team and I understand you can't wish things into existence.
I also don't mean to come of as blunt, just being as honest as the admin is in her replies.

Another discussion and answer about the MISSING MAGIC of our Lore. This is something discussed, again and again in many different videos, text, forums, Discord post, interviews. But to make it easier for you I will answer you here. (This kinda answer your last comment too @floweringmind )


1. When we created Embers Adrift, we wanted to create a grounded, more realistic fantasy. Which is why I like to call it medieval science-fiction because that's the term that illustrate our Lore the best. It is of course an invention. But it is more science-fiction based, than pure fantasy. Why did we choose that? because that's what WE WANTED TO CREATE. We though it was interesteing, mysterious, exciting, original, and different. This is our creativity and artistic expression as a team (We all worked on the base Lore together)

2. Ember is NOT MAGIC. It is a natural phenomenon. As you will learn more about Ember through your adventures, as you will experiment and study its proprieties, you will understand more about its nature. Is it realistic? No. It is imaginary science-fiction.

3. Healing IS NOT MAGIC. Healing is First aid, Patch, Triage and other terms inspired from actual IRL care, that are illustrating a physical healing, rather than a magical healing. Originaly, you had to have bandages in your inventory, stand next to your target in melee range, and the cold down was much longer. To make our combat more balanced and interesting, we have increased the range, removed the bandages, and shortened the CDs. Is it realistic? No. It is not, but we sacrificed the realism to make our combat more interesting. It is still not becoming suddendly Magic. Why? Because we do not want our story, our world, to be based out of magic. This is our creative choice.

4. You are actualy NOT DYING, and not RESURECTING. You are falling in combat (fainting) and someone can either heal you or use "salts", which illustrate that you were uncounscious. What happen when you release? Thematically, you can imagine someone dragged you to a hallow, leaving your bag behind. Who are those someone, and why are they doing that is part of the Lore and something you will discover.

We have decided to create a different Lore. We found very interesting that players would stumble into a relatively mundane world and will discover more and more its mysteries as they progress through the game. Things that are out of place. Things that are mysterious. More and more explanations about out world and how it work will be revealed as you progress through the game.
When it come to the GAMEPLAY mechanic of "exceptional power" that we are introducing with Alchemy, we wanted players to discover that power, step by step, and have to learn it and master it if they so choose (not an obligation at all).
We could have make our World and our Lore based out off Magic. But we choose to not to. We choose to create something different.

This may very well be not to your taste, and that's very fair! It is absolutely your right.
I have tried my best to explain you our reasoning. But you could very well simplify this to a ... creative choice. We liked it, and we wanted to do it.

 

[Calkrow]

I've noticed the Ember Wraiths no longer just hang around hallows; what could they be up to....

 

[Colanius]

We could have make our World and our Lore based out off Magic. But we choose to not to. We choose to create something different.

The main problem with this point of view (and don't get me wrong, I'm just being critically constructive here), is that lore itself won't bring people to the game and keep it alive. It's good to have a good lore foundation, but it works if you were doing books or a YT series.

The game itself and its mechanics right now are not very appealing besides being an "old school vibe" in these modern times.
- The combat is not the main dish to appeal to new people, very basic and wonky. (even EQ and WoW in the early 2000s were superior in every way and we are in 2023)
- The classes are (like my other post said) very bland, not much variety not much personality, and everybody is melee and ranged without anyone being specialized... Even the naming and iconography of classes feels wrong, Duelist and Warlord sounded much more like dps names not healer names for example, they also have a sword and a helm as icons, not very healer-ish also, very confusing for new people when grouping up to differentiate them. And the lack of magic makes this worse.
- The leveling process is artificially prolonged, and the reward/loot/quests feel like you're wasting a lot of effort on challenging content and then being rewarded poorly.
- Crafting is ok, but the lack of an auction house significantly limits its potential, and very limits the character growth because you can't easily have what you need or have a significant upgrade (you can be social and trade but also give a chance for those who want to use the AH and not being forced to socialize and waste time traveling).
- Very few solo options and the lack of logging off safely if you have to leave in a dungeon are just mechanics that are just hurting the experience.

The world is ok, but we already have our "mundane" world IRL. People want to be attracted by something that makes them awe, so far the gameplay part of the game is not very impressive, so the lore itself being neutral also doesn't add much (you said is mysterious, to me is just meh). The main selling point is the gameplay, and so far it's hard to even defend this game to friends trying to hook them up, we are missing a lot of QoL from games 20+ years old.

That's why Ashes or Pantheon are very hyped and expected games, they are old school (in different ways) but their mechanics, gameplay, and world hype you up.

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes you need to soften your "stubbornness" a little, and cater to a broader audience. In this moment, the only selling point is the MMO being "old school" but that's not enough to keep a healthy population and in MMOs the population is what keeps the game alive. You already stepped down from mandatory sub to B2P with optional sub because you were bleeding players and not attracting new ones, the next step of losing more or not attracting more are the points all the people are asking in the forums and you are not listening.

I know you're a small dev team, but some things are not just technical limitations, but simply refusing to change.

 

[Elloa]

I understand what you are saying, and there is many areas where we know that we can improve and polish the game.
- In some case, we are working on it
- In some other case, we would love too, but it's out of our reach for now (manpower, time, tech, funds...) and we have to find a compromise, a less ideal solutions.
- And in some case, we disagree that the changes suggested will beneficiate the game long term.

We have a clear vision of our game and what core experience we want to offer. And we are working on creating just that. We try to improve, adapt, polish the experience that we want to create for our players. Players feedback are important because they allow us to refine the way we convey that experience. Sometimes certain things are not working the way we intended. Sometimes we need to communicate a feature better. Sometimes we need to change it. And sometimes it is a case of you like it or not.
I do not think this is "stubborness". Or if it is I believe it is rightful artistic stubborness. We have proven again and again that we were actively listening to our players feedback, discussing with our players and many time adapting features or changing them to accomodate our players.

However, there is certain things that we are not willing to change. For example, we are not going to change our Lore because it does not peak the interest of certain players. This is very much a case where you guys need to think whether you want to play what we offer or if it is not to your taste. You have the choice and the freedom to make that decision for yourself. We are a honnest company, we communicate with as much honnesty as possible, we are not playing trick on you to fool you or leaving you with false hopes. So you can make that decision with clarity.

 

[ZackATK]

Another discussion and answer about the MISSING MAGIC of our Lore. This is something discussed, again and again in many different videos, text, forums, Discord post, interviews. But to make it easier for you I will answer you here. (This kinda answer your last comment too @floweringmind )


1. When we created Embers Adrift, we wanted to create a grounded, more realistic fantasy. Which is why I like to call it medieval science-fiction because that's the term that illustrate our Lore the best. It is of course an invention. But it is more science-fiction based, than pure fantasy. Why did we choose that? because that's what WE WANTED TO CREATE. We though it was interesteing, mysterious, exciting, original, and different. This is our creativity and artistic expression as a team (We all worked on the base Lore together)

2. Ember is NOT MAGIC. It is a natural phenomenon. As you will learn more about Ember through your adventures, as you will experiment and study its proprieties, you will understand more about its nature. Is it realistic? No. It is imaginary science-fiction.

3. Healing IS NOT MAGIC. Healing is First aid, Patch, Triage and other terms inspired from actual IRL care, that are illustrating a physical healing, rather than a magical healing. Originaly, you had to have bandages in your inventory, stand next to your target in melee range, and the cold down was much longer. To make our combat more balanced and interesting, we have increased the range, removed the bandages, and shortened the CDs. Is it realistic? No. It is not, but we sacrificed the realism to make our combat more interesting. It is still not becoming suddendly Magic. Why? Because we do not want our story, our world, to be based out of magic. This is our creative choice.

4. You are actualy NOT DYING, and not RESURECTING. You are falling in combat (fainting) and someone can either heal you or use "salts", which illustrate that you were uncounscious. What happen when you release? Thematically, you can imagine someone dragged you to a hallow, leaving your bag behind. Who are those someone, and why are they doing that is part of the Lore and something you will discover.

We have decided to create a different Lore. We found very interesting that players would stumble into a relatively mundane world and will discover more and more its mysteries as they progress through the game. Things that are out of place. Things that are mysterious. More and more explanations about out world and how it work will be revealed as you progress through the game.
When it come to the GAMEPLAY mechanic of "exceptional power" that we are introducing with Alchemy, we wanted players to discover that power, step by step, and have to learn it and master it if they so choose (not an obligation at all).
We could have make our World and our Lore based out off Magic. But we choose to not to. We choose to create something different.

This may very well be not to your taste, and that's very fair! It is absolutely your right.
I have tried my best to explain you our reasoning. But you could very well simplify this to a ... creative choice. We liked it, and we wanted to do it.

Honestly, I would rather you guys revert some of those changes to healing in most cases and stick to your vision for the game and it’s lore. It’s current iteration feels too magical, even if it is not intended to be magical. I would rather see a melee range requirement for healing abilities that essentially imply you are providing treatment to someone, which is all of them except for Warlords heal over time chant I believe. Maybe just instead of requiring a reagent make optional reagents that provide bonuses for these abilities like many of the others already in the game.

This would also have the secondary benefit of adding a little flavor to Warlord as a supporter who doesn’t have to actively move to treat allies as often; this would create a niche that could be perpetuated further as the team expands on the game.

Just a quick note I wanted to add after thinking about it more: I could see where direct melee range could make things feel really clunky especially if the person you’re trying to heal moves, but I do think being relatively close range would remove the magical feeling of it. Another possibility would be a sort of mechanic for if your target does move that the heal still works at least.

 

[Lunamagic]

I understand what you are saying, and there is many areas where we know that we can improve and polish the game.
- In some case, we are working on it
- In some other case, we would love too, but it's out of our reach for now (manpower, time, tech, funds...) and we have to find a compromise, a less ideal solutions.
- And in some case, we disagree that the changes suggested will beneficiate the game long term.

We have a clear vision of our game and what core experience we want to offer. And we are working on creating just that. We try to improve, adapt, polish the experience that we want to create for our players. Players feedback are important because they allow us to refine the way we convey that experience. Sometimes certain things are not working the way we intended. Sometimes we need to communicate a feature better. Sometimes we need to change it. And sometimes it is a case of you like it or not.
I do not think this is "stubborness". Or if it is I believe it is rightful artistic stubborness. We have proven again and again that we were actively listening to our players feedback, discussing with our players and many time adapting features or changing them to accomodate our players.

However, there is certain things that we are not willing to change. For example, we are not going to change our Lore because it does not peak the interest of certain players. This is very much a case where you guys need to think whether you want to play what we offer or if it is not to your taste. You have the choice and the freedom to make that decision for yourself. We are a honnest company, we communicate with as much honnesty as possible, we are not playing trick on you to fool you or leaving you with false hopes. So you can make that decision with clarity

What exactly is the vision and the core experience you are trying to offer? I don't think the majority of the player base knows what this is. I feel this would help if we knew what this was so suggestions could be directed to this. I understand that you have full right as to the direction as to how you want to develop your game but it just seems the vision is inconsistent.

I have seen consistently you want a low fantasy environment. Even though I love magic/high fantasy in a game, I can accept a low fantasy concept if the gameplay is on point and fun. You're already at a disadvantage for not wanting to include magical elements in this game so you have to include aspects that will overcompensate for this.

At this point, I feel very conflicted about the gameplay. I really love the group and social aspects of this game. However, the combat is super clunky, loot is very meh, class skills are boring, and the speed progression in this game is grindy and repetitive. I can already see as I hit level 25, the environment will be very monotonous where you repeatedly are doing the same content and killing the same creatures. I actually don't mind a slow progression in a game but you have to mid tier game elements that still appeal to you even if your gaining levels slower. I personally don't ever see myself getting past lvl 30 because I will get bored doing the same content over and over for little reward. If I had some incredible loot to look forward to, some kind of content achievement I could go aspire to, or harder content that has more mechanics that take a great deal of coordination (such as raids), I'd consider leveling on. Even a combination of any of those, I'd consider it. I'm probably going create a new character and do the early game again because that experience is the most enjoyable. However, I can only enjoy the early game experience so many times before I get bored (even though non-sub players will not be able to experience this so it depends on how much they enjoyed the early game to consider subbing).

I could understand the stubbornness for not changing certain things if you're successfully appealing to the niche crowd by having 50K concurrent players, or even if you're having 10K concurrent players as originally predicted at release of this game. But this is simply not the case, so at what point do you go back to the drawing board and ask yourself "What can we change that doesn't affect our core principles that we consider would be game breaking?" Game breaking meaning there's not point to develop this further because our game is broken.

Also, the lore itself is going to attract very few players. From my experience as a new player, I have grouped with several groups with different players and the majority of players have openly admitted that they do not care about the lore, the quests, reading the quests, etc. The amount of players who actually care is pretty small. From my experience in other games, the player base that cares about the lore, are the ones who are solo players. However, the majority I have grouped with, all agree that the grouping and social aspects of the game is what appeals them to the game and are enjoying the most. The majority of players who are interested in these type of games are concerned with the gameplay, which is why this should take priority.

I think its time to look at broadening the scope of who you want to to appeal. You have great groundwork at being the game that people have been waiting for years to play but the gameplay issues are a huge turn off. The refusal of utilizing some QOL elements that have been proven to be successful in previous old school type mmos is what is frustrating. I don't disagree with some games like EQ had undesirable features but they also had elements that overcompensated for this so those players were willing to accept those not fun features because it didn't stop them from having a great experience. I think people lose sight as to why old school style mmos were so enjoyable. It's the encouraged grouping, the unique class abilities which increased diversity in groups, the difficult content and mobs, slower combat (not twitchy), and exploration. I know there's so many other positive features that I can add to this list but those are majority agreed upon. You can still have all of this and still have the QOL elements included, it will not break your game. Despite all the people stating "Oh no please don't do this, it will eliminate your core base", I guarantee you they will end up liking those features. Because even in EQ, adding a few QOL features, it did not hurt them in the long run.

 

[Yeff]

However, the combat is super clunky, loot is very meh, class skills are boring, and the speed progression in this game is grindy and repetitive.

The majority of players who are interested in these type of games are concerned with the gameplay, which is why this should take priority.

I think people lose sight as to why old school style mmos were so enjoyable. It's the encouraged grouping, the unique class abilities which increased diversity in groups, the difficult content and mobs, slower combat (not twitchy), and exploration.

I could not agree more with these statements and it worries me that core combat development, class fantasy, and better combat animations are so far down on Elloa's list in a previous post. If you are going to have a game with low fantasy and this slow of an exp pace then the core combat mechanics need to be really, really good because you will be performing these actions thousands of times.

If you want to look at old school games that got positional and reactional combat right then look at Dark age of Camelot. It has better block, dodge, parry, and melee animations than Embers currently and it's over 20 years old. I was always an EQ guy, started back in 1999 and still play some to this day but my EQ friends and I always said if they had DAOC melee combat in EQ it would have been the "perfect game".

On another note I had suggested a change to SCT (scrolling combat text) and the combat window back when the game first launched and it was one of the most upvoted suggestions on discord but still don't see it in the game. This alone would be a good start to making combat feel a little better. Here is the suggestion copied from discord:

Yeff
OP
— 11/03/2022 11:54 AM
I posted this in the forums but there seems to be a lot more interaction going on here.

I have a suggestion for the combat numbers that appear over your head and the npc's head. Please make the outgoing damage a different color from incoming damage, atm they are both red and hard to differentiate. You could just do the standard white normal damage/glancing, yellow for crits/heavy, and red for incoming damage or whatever colors you see fit.

Another suggestion: This time for the text in the combat window. Consider making the whole line of text when you get hit by an NPC red instead of just the you/your part of it and on healing make the whole line of text green. I feel like this will help break up the sea of white text and make these important things easier to see.

 

[Colanius]

I could understand the stubbornness for not changing certain things if you're successfully appealing to the niche crowd by having 50K concurrent players, or even if you're having 10K concurrent players as originally predicted at release of this game.

Exactly, if your game has a stable population and you want to keep the niche then fine, go ahead and keep your point of view. But the game has barely 100 users active and stepping down from active sub to optional sub is the first sign that your game is struggling and not appealing to new people.

 

[Elloa]

If a feature you want in the game is NOT in the game it can be:
1> It is being worked on, or will be worked on in the future (may be further down in the priority list)
2> We would love to add this feature, but we can not (manpower, tech, time, money...)
3> We do not believe this feature will be improving the game long term

Examples:
1> You want more variety of content: we are working on the hunting log that will be released soon.
1> You want more classe fantasy: we are working on epic quest for each class to get epic weapons

2>You want new animations: we would love to have improved combat animation, but we do not have the artist to work on it.
2>You want an auction house: we are stil undecided regarding an auction house, but regardless, before to implement an auction house, we need to implement a mail system which will be our next step

3>You want a minimap: we are very happy with our current system and we are not planning to change it.



I am not going to answer each point that has been shared in this thread one by one, I hope that this explanation give you more ideas of how things work in general.
I am going to refer once again to the road map, so you can see what we are currently working on or planning to work on for this year. This will allow you to know what to expect and if it works for you or not.
Why are we not working on other things? It can be either: not the time, not the manpower, not the tech, we don't like this feature, maybe later but not now...

We are very conscious that our game need improvements and polish and more content and we are working on that. Some of your suggestions are really good. Some of your suggestions are less good for various reasons. Despite what you may think.

What exactly is the vision and the core experience you are trying to offer?

We have been discussing this everywhere, from the Weekly Community Shows, to various interviews with the devs (check out this one) , to posts and threads over here.

I suggest you to check out my own video, which is an introduction for new players I created before the last Open Weekend on my personal channel.

Or the video created by @thenathannapalm

Thank you for the discussion.

 

[Lunamagic]

I could not agree more with these statements and it worries me that core combat development, class fantasy, and better combat animations are so far down on Elloa's list in a previous post. If you are going to have a game with low fantasy and this slow of an exp pace then the core combat mechanics need to be really, really good because you will be performing these actions thousands of times.

If you want to look at old school games that got positional and reactional combat right then look at Dark age of Camelot. It has better block, dodge, parry, and melee animations than Embers currently and it's over 20 years old. I was always an EQ guy, started back in 1999 and still play some to this day but my EQ friends and I always said if they had DAOC melee combat in EQ it would have been the "perfect game".

1000% this comment. From DAOC, what about chained attacks as well? That would be definitely add a strategic element and lessen the monotony of using the same skill repeatedly. You have to make each class abilities feel good. As a Warlord, I have abilities on my bar that I have no idea are being effective. There are some cases where I have moments of "Is this supposed to be working as it should?". I'd much rather buff the current abilities where they feel more effective and have longer cooldowns. Even if this means you have to increase the difficulty of the mobs across the board, I'm definitely in favor of this to enjoy combat more. Even as a Support class, I feel out of all the other classes, I have the most skills that feel good because I know the buffs (especially the stam buff, it's a noticeable difference) is helping the groups and my heals are effective. I feel the other classes are at disadvantage because they may have one skill that sets them apart while the other 7 skills they have, you can barely tell a difference what they actually do.

Exactly, if your game has a stable population and you want to keep the niche then fine, go ahead and keep your point of view. But the game has barely 100 users active and stepping down from active sub to optional sub is the first sign that your game is struggling and not appealing to new people.

This is what bothers me when people come down on those giving constructive criticism. Its obvious something needs to change. I constantly see these same issues are being brought up by people who actually like classic old school mmos but are simply ignored. This is why I wonder who exactly is the target audience.

 

[Elloa]

Dear @Lunamagic ,

I've been answering your questions and your post, just above yours with lenghty explanations and several videos for you to watch.

but are simply ignored

We are not ignoring you. We read all the feedback, we discuss it, we consider it. It is not because something you want in the game is not implemented in the game that we are ignoring you. In the post above I've explained in lenght the reasons why a feature that you wish may not be implemented in the game.
You have been part of a very intence discussion (that I had to moderate on Discord) related to the healer abilities targeting. This discussion has been read, considered and discussed and you can now see the result in this week patch on QA. (You are very welcome to join the QA server, test it toroughly and share your feedback)

- Doubled the angle forgiveness that occurs when executing an ability. By the time an ability reaches 100% execution the allowed angle will be expanded by 60 degrees (up from 30). Abilities such as heal that have a 120 degree requirement will expand to 180 degrees during execution (the required start angle is still 120 degrees)