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Thoughts on Warlord vs Duelist.

Rokal

Member
Hail, and well met, all.

Looking for insights and opinions on Duelist vs Warlord, (no interest in Sentimel... no offense to those Sentinels out there).

When solo, (when a group can't be found or I just wanna) ?

When grouping?

The Warlord only gets two heals; levels 2 & 6, compared to the Duelist's three; 2, 6, & 22... how does that effect group efficacy, if at all?

Opinions in general?

Any info based on gameplay.

Thank you.

Take care.
 
Hyper new here myself, but...your questions are a BIT vague. Still, best answer I can give with my extremely limited knowledge:

TL;DR up front:

Duelist: Strong, quick, heals (spot and AOE), probably the "designated party healer" but can single target well, most straightforward and beginner friendly, decent damage. Reactive healer.
Sentinel: Sustained, efficient HoT rolling, armor buffing, probably the "designated tank healer", nice and tanky when you need to solo or "emergency off-tank". Proactive healer.
Warlord: Efficient song rolling to maintain party buffs and minimize downtime. Buffer with a minor in healing. Probably the most complex to use well, but may be the most powerful when mastered.

Disclaimer: Anyone can say this is wrong or that I'm too green to answer this question...but c'mon, you've left this poor fellow hangin' for 4, almost 5 months. XD
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Duelist has the fastest/most spamable heal in the game (Patch at level 6 has a 1 sec cast and no CD), and the most efficient party heal (Triage, the higher level one, is mana efficient the more people it heals, so healing a fully party who all have damage, it's the most efficient and potent heal in the game). They learn a lot of attack spells, but their damage is still somewhat meh (all Healer/Supporters are), but if you wanted to load your bar with attacks and use Patch for general healing and First Aid for when you have very low health (longish CD but heals more the lower the target's health is, making it efficient when used at low HP values), you can make a half-decent attack build...for soloing...still not great, but it's there if you're into that. Duelist seems to be the best burst healer in the game, and CAN be a mana efficient healer when played well. Also gets Stim which you can use as stamina regen, so this is your Innervate (WoW Druid) or Lucid Dreaming (all FFXIV healers) type ability. Duelists can solo decently, but it's slow (though this may be true for everyone) with a measure of safety as long as you watch for adds, etc. Their healing is effcient and useful for a group, with the most efficient party heal as I said above, and they have a few skills that can enhance allies' attacks, like Serrated Blades or Weak Point, though they're nothing to write home about (far as I can tell), they're there. Also, while Sentinel can taunt enemies and armor up to survive, Duelist is the only healer with a threat reduction ability to shed threat. They make me think of Holy Paladins in the Wrath era of WoW with their strong, quick, and reactive heals. I've also heard people likening it to EQ Shamans, though I never played one of those, so defer to them on it.

Warlord's got the most limited healing options of the three, with First Aid (mentioned above) and its group healing over time song, which is efficient but doesn't do well in burst heal situations (where you need a lot of healing in a short time). Conversely, best party buffer in the game, I think(?), with the party stam regen (always good for camps or dungeon crawls), healing regen song, attack speed (or accuracy?) song to increase party damage on the enemy, etc. It also has an AOE debuff (which the other two do not) against enemies, and has single target (and I think higher level AOE?) CC in the form of fear. Though fear CAN be dangerous, it's an option in a pinch or if the party doesn't have a CC/the CC being used isn't landing/sticking on the enemy for whatever reason. Warlords are great at reducing downtime, but really shine in a party environment. People tend to say these are a lot like EQ Bards. I played EQ for all of a month (being a kid without a way to pay a subscription fee and only getting the free mont that came with my game at the time), and most MMOs just don't have a real buffer/supporter role or classes...so I'll defer to the wisdom of the masses and say it here.

You didn't ask about it, but, for the purposes of completeness:

Sentinel is the most overall defensive of the healers. Their heals aren't as bursty as a Duelist but are efficient heal over times. Their buffs/debuffs are largely aimed at having self or allies take less damage, either bolstering armor or reducing enemy damage dealt. They also have 5 more points of armor weight (can use slightly better armor) than the other two, can fortify it more from their buffs, and are the only healer with the interesting option of a taunt, which with their heavier armor can potentially come in clutch. They seem like they do lower damage, making soloing more slow, but on the other hand, because they have more armor and efficient HoTs, they can probably do so reliably and consistently, if slowly, outlasting what they choose to fight. Probably most like EQ Clerics/WoW Resto Druid (HoTs for days, Bear form for emergency tanking) of the bunch. I didn't play EQ but for a month (was a kid with no credit card for a subscription fee at the time XD), so can't speak to fhe former, but I can speak to the latter, and think the rolling HoTs and emergency tanking of WoW Druids is probably a decently applicable comparison.

Grouping:

They're all good healers, though have different focuses. Duelist is good at burst healing and party (AOE) healing and decent at damage itself, but nothing compared to a DD class; may be the easiest to heal since they have direct and quick heals for reactive gameplay. Good in small or ad hoc groups since they can sorta adjust to the needs of the party in limited ways (e.g. if you have 2 tanks, 2 other healers, yourself, and one DD, you can KIND of try to sub into being a DD-lite...not well, but meh). Sentinel is good at single target (Tank) healing and buffing party defenses and sustain (HoTs); efficient and sustained healing, though a bit more proactive/set-up than Duelist, and able to survive and even tank for short times if needed, though short should be emphasized. Warlord is good at party buffing and enemy debuffing, it's capable of healing as well, but has more limited tools for that so has to be used carefully, but its party damage buffs should have the enemies dying faster than the other two. Probably the best for camps since they decrease downtime, and they play well with other healers since they boost the other healer's abilities as well (Duelist can do this with Stim, which is stronger stamina regen but single target only).

Soloing:

They're all going to be slow at it, since the game isn't hyper-solo friendly. That said... Duelist seems to have a lot of damage options so lots of abilities to cycle through cutting down the enemy HP bar and, importantly, Patch (also Triage, but that's a party heal) having a short cast time and no recast CD means they can run and heal themselves while running. This can be useful if you have to run becase an add joined the fight or you realize the enemy you attacked is too strong and need to make a tactical withdraw. (To put it another way: Duelists are probably the best at RUNNING AWAY if the situation turns bad. Which isn't an insult, sometimes that IS the most prudent thing to do.) Also has an execute (only usable when enemy is less than 50% health and does more damage the lower their health) which is...an..."interesting"...choice for a healer. Sentinel's armor and buffs and efficient, sustained healing means it probably won't die unless you've picked off WAY more than you can chew...but few attacks means it will be even slower at killing things. Trade higher risk for lower reward. But if slow and steady is your style, probably works pretty well. Warlord's buffs and debuffs work on themselves as well as a party...but only at 1/6th the effectiveness since you only have your one self to buff. Probably less than 1/6th since your damage isn't equal to a DD. They do have a lot of options to slot out and try in different arrangements, though, and less downtime between pulls.

In general:

Note all healers have access to the same weapons (1h sword, 1h axe, 2h quarterstaff, ranged crossbow). While I personally am not a huge fan of crossbows (would love to be able to use shortbows since I like archery and the idea of a healer using a bow), one nice thing is all your attack abilities...work with the crossbow. Meaning you can fight from range if you want, just note the range of your spells so you're still in range of the people that need healing. Embers Adrift is a low fantasy setting, so you can throw bandages 8 meters, not cast a healing magic spell from 40 meters away. :) But it's a nice touch that you can pull back a bit in cases of, for example, enemies with AOE damage, and pew pew with your crossbow.

It completely depends on what you want to do and what you like. I tend to like being a pure healer and was pretty set on Sentinel, but reading the descriptions, I realized that Duelist looked more my speed becuase I like having a heal that's always available and can be spammed at need (Patch) and tend to enjoy more reactive, adabtable healing which the Duelist has vs the Sentinel's proactive style that is powerful and efficient in an organized group situation, but less good in "SHTF" situations. It also seems that the damage might be a bit more useful if I have to solo and the strong and spamable heals could be useful for traveling or getting out of dangerous situations. I was worried it was "the solo healer that groups wouldn't want", but (a) groups seem to take whatever is available most of the time anyway and (b) it seems to be a fully capable healer and have the best party heal in the game anyway. So I'm not so worried about not having a party spot. I also remember playing a Healadin in WoW back in the day and loved the "heals for dayz" style of quick and strong heals, so this seemed to suit me best.

Sentinel is still a great choice for people that want to "turtle and the hare" slow and steady their way, and they're obviously always welcome in groups. If there end up being big raids at some point, they'll probably be in the tank party as the main tank healers, and there are some interesting options there with off-tanking potential (in smaller group content). All in all, it's a solid choice as well, just wasn't mine. But for fans of the old school Cleric type healer, this one can't be beat. While all the healers are good, and most balanced parties will probably have two, Sentinels absolutely have a solid spot because of their defensive buffs and, like I say, if there's ever large group content, they'll likely feature prominently due to their efficient and sustained healing and defensive boosting abilities.

And Warlord is a storng contender for camps/xp farming parties, and useful as a secondary healer in general. I've heard things about it soloing, but can't speak to them myself. It SEEMS less focused on that, but maybe there's something I'm missing. (I'm only even posting all this because no one's given you an answer yet). Always welcome in groups, lots of buffs, has the Bard "juggle/upkeep songs for best results" gameplay that a lot of people loved and have missed since most modern MMOs just don't fill that niche in any way/don't have classes that even DO that. Probably the least solo friendly of the bunch, but groups and your co-healer (whether Sentinel or Duelist) will like having you around, clutch situations you can roll the dice with fear and potentially safe (or doom) parties, and the downtime cutting from stamina and health regen songs will be a boon to any party.

Based on gameplay:

I'm still really new, and only have Duelist to speak of, and only at a low level. But so far, here's my experience with it's gameplay:

I really like Patch. Feels good being able to use Screen on my tank if surprise adds join the fight, use the base purple attack (that all healers have) to cut the enemy's armor down, use Patch to keep the tank's health stable or quickly heal/save a DD or other healer who got agro until the tank can pull off of them, and having First Aid in my back pocket if the fight drags on and I need to switch to higher efficiency single target healing. The damage isn't huge, but is decent when fighting single chevron, at level enemies, and there are some utility attacks/debuffs/buffs that could be useful in different situations if I want to mix things up. So...decent damage, some interesting abilities, responsive and direct heals that are easy to understand and execute, and the ability to be efficient if needed. But, agian, my experience is VERY limited. But I think this general playstyle will be debuff the enemies a bit, spot heal people at need with Patch, party heal with Triage if needed (3 or more targets - remember that heals ARE ALSO REVIVES in this game, so Triage could potentially bring up to 5 downed people back into the fight), and swap to efficient healing via First Aid if really necessary, using Stim to manage stamina. Soloing is basically load up on attack abilities and abuse Patch to keep yourself in the action and/or to heal as you run in case you bite off more than you can chew. I think Duelist MAY be the easiest healer to understand its kit and execute healing duties well since it's straightforward and Patch/Triage short cast time (and Patch's no CD) make it very beginner friendly to recover from mistakes ("Oops! I used Patch on the wrong person! Guess I wasted 10% stamina but I can cast it again on the person in actual need and save them anyway!" is far less devastating than "Oops! I used First Aid on the wrong person...and now can't heal them for 10 seconds!")

Talking to people in the other subclasses, they ALL seem to have things going for them. So it's really more about what you want and what playstyle you like best. But as far as group healing, which is the big thing in this game:

Duelist: Strong, quick, heals (spot and AOE), probably the "designated party healer" but can single target well, most straightforward and beginner friendly, decent damage. Reactive healer.
Sentinel: Sustained, efficient HoT rolling, armor buffing, probably the "designated tank healer", nice and tanky when you need to solo or "emergency off-tank". Proactive healer.
Warlord: Efficient song rolling to maintain party buffs and minimize downtime. Buffer with a minor in healing. Probably the most complex to use well, but may be the most powerful when mastered.
 
Adding to Renathras's post. Warlords group chants are not always usable solo'ing at least at lower lvls. The Stam chant costs as much stam as it regens, which is 5% cost for 5% regen. It's worth it in a group or if you have time before you pull to regen for a sec or two but never in combat. Healing chant is just weak solo, not worth the stam. Alchemy may change that, I'm unsure.
 
Warlords do get a second heal "Death's Door" at 34 and its basically another first aid. Since they dont get that heal until later in game, invest in haste gear so first aid refreshes quicker if you go the Warlord route. They also get single target, fear and AOE fear insta cast for CC or survival when traveling through sketchy areas. New fear mechanics make the mobs walk much slower now so its more controllable (plus you can direct fears based on where you are when you cast it in relation to the mob.) Also, at 38 you get an AOE damage skill which regularly hits for over 100 and dots the mobs. These skills along with the debuffs you can do to mobs coupled with stam song going make Warlords a very powerful class, especially at higher levels in groups or solo. AT lvl 38+ you can do haste, combat movement builds and kite slower mobs with despair hitting every 10 seconds on 4-5 mobs. You can pull with Dread Bellow and spam Despair, neither of which require you to target anything as its a blank AOE.
 
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I have a Warlord question/comment and I would like to piggy-back here if I may.

I'm not too high of a lvl yet so it's very possible I'm just playing with newbies and/or people learning, and that's fine, but I'm noticing some serious problems with Warlords sub lvl 20:

1) A good majority of the time (75% +/-), when the fight starts a Warlord will A) put up stamina song, then B) sit. This is kinda helpful, but to be honest I'd rather have a functional healer than an extra skill use during a fight.

2a) The rest of the time (25% +/-), when the fight starts a Warlord will at least try to assist. The extra damage is nice, I'm not complaining here.

2b) When they do assist, 50% of the time +/- they are using the crossbow. I am not a math expert here but I believe the dps difference between a crossbow vs staff or hatchet/mace would be considerably less for the given level. Thus, even when they do assist the damage isn't as high as it could or maybe should be.

3) Speaking of healing, a Warlord just sucks at it during a fight (they're awesome at healing after the fight). A Sent or a Duelist will at least try to get +heal gear but I strongly question if the Warlords I have grouped with do this as +haste probably works better for them, which makes sense. Either way, when I've been in Warlord-only healer groups I've been disappointed with the in-fight healing each time. That's not a fault of the Warlord necessarily, maybe more a thought that they shouldn't be left alone to heal.

4) This might be me but I don't like the Warlord fear at all. It doesn't seem to have the greatest mechanic in the way it's used, but it might just be a case where the Warlord in question is just learning to use it. Almost every time I have seen the low lvl fear go off, the mob will walk away, take two steps, then come right back into the fight, and that's assuming it's even effected, which a lot of the time it's not. To compare, an equal-level brigand can keep a mob out of the entire fight and sometimes a bit more after that plus it doesn't break nearly as often if ever.

Just my thoughts, take for what you will. Not meant to cause an argument.
 
I have a Warlord question/comment and I would like to piggy-back here if I may.

I'm not too high of a lvl yet so it's very possible I'm just playing with newbies and/or people learning, and that's fine, but I'm noticing some serious problems with Warlords sub lvl 20:

1) A good majority of the time (75% +/-), when the fight starts a Warlord will A) put up stamina song, then B) sit. This is kinda helpful, but to be honest I'd rather have a functional healer than an extra skill use during a fight.

2a) The rest of the time (25% +/-), when the fight starts a Warlord will at least try to assist. The extra damage is nice, I'm not complaining here.

2b) When they do assist, 50% of the time +/- they are using the crossbow. I am not a math expert here but I believe the dps difference between a crossbow vs staff or hatchet/mace would be considerably less for the given level. Thus, even when they do assist the damage isn't as high as it could or maybe should be.

3) Speaking of healing, a Warlord just sucks at it during a fight (they're awesome at healing after the fight). A Sent or a Duelist will at least try to get +heal gear but I strongly question if the Warlords I have grouped with do this as +haste probably works better for them, which makes sense. Either way, when I've been in Warlord-only healer groups I've been disappointed with the in-fight healing each time. That's not a fault of the Warlord necessarily, maybe more a thought that they shouldn't be left alone to heal.

4) This might be me but I don't like the Warlord fear at all. It doesn't seem to have the greatest mechanic in the way it's used, but it might just be a case where the Warlord in question is just learning to use it. Almost every time I have seen the low lvl fear go off, the mob will walk away, take two steps, then come right back into the fight, and that's assuming it's even effected, which a lot of the time it's not. To compare, an equal-level brigand can keep a mob out of the entire fight and sometimes a bit more after that plus it doesn't break nearly as often if ever.

Just my thoughts, take for what you will. Not meant to cause an argument.
Hey there.. I will address your questions as someone who has played a warlord (alot). Yes the do have some struggles early on but grow powerful as they level.

1. Warlords have good debuffs, and Stifle should be used (which slows attack speed of the mob) which in turn equals less damage you will need to heal. Alchemy Stifle also adds very nice increases here. Stam song is a given, and heal song should be run after the battle has started (running this on a pull can bring unwanted aggro directly to the warlord). +Hit song can be used but sometimes depending on the situation other skills might outweight it. I also like the group haste skill Rally Call as it kicks whole group into overdrive.

2. Dont forget to use assailing strike that all healers get. This helps break down the armor of the mob you are attacking. Some crossbows are very strong, and you may see people swapping out 1h/flag/scepter after healing back to a xbow for ranged damage, also potentially to avoid aoes from mobs. This will depend on the ranged gear in question being compared the melee gear and what mobs you are fighting.

3. Warlord are far from sucking at healing during a fight. Their big direct heal is the same heal all supporters have, First Aid. Haste is important for a warlord, especially early on as first aid will need to be refreshed quickly for recast, and very important if solo healing in a group. They do not get a second big heal until lvl 34. I swear by haste on all classes, and can bypass some of the +heal stat in favor of haste. What good is your massive +healing stat if you are sitting there waiting for First Aid to be refreshed? Once you get other skills like Despair (AOE Damage), with the right haste you can knock this recast from 15 seconds down to 9 and First Aid recast from 10 secs down to ~6 secs. With Despair every 9 seconds you would have ~100+ damage aoe on 6 targets ready to recast (careful in cc situations it will break until you learn the arc). This is all about balance when it comes to which stats to focus on. Bring various gear out and test drive it to see if the extra +x stat is beter than then -y stat.

4. Warlord fear is awesome. It has a fast recast and you can aim the fear so that you are not sending it into adds. It can be recast yet with diminishing returns. They get an instacast AOE fear at 30 which can really help in those "oh sh1t" moments, or while traveling for survivability. Also feared mobs move slower now so make it easier to control.

Warlords can be tough to play early on as you have obviously seen, but in my opinion grow to be one of the most powerful classes in the game over time as you gain levels.
 
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