Said before, I'll say it again... inter-class diversity and Beserker rant

[Blyte Plays]

I'd like build options and decisions beyond role specialization. I dont want all that separates 2 berserkers, to be gear selection.

I've made suggestions in the past for talent systems, but there are so many ways to accomplish this. Even if it's just a simple choice, like one ability specialization. IE, this berzerker specialized in Fury for more single target DPS, and the other one specialized in Wild Strikes for more AoE.

The more meaningful and plentiful the specialization options and opportunity, the better imo.

There should be some class identity for two players of the same class to share, but the more opportunity for deviation, the better imo, as the character increases in tier.

One more berserker critique I noticed on the codex tool tip. It said 0-5 damage bonus on 1 hand weapons and ranged weapons... what the heck man? Why cant a two-handed beserker enjoy this. Seems to me, this bonus would be more compounded and impactful while dual wielding... why totally take it from the great weapon bezerker? Please take the bonus away from bows and give it to two-handed. Maybe consider making it 40% more potent with twohanders, for balance. IE 0-5 bonus damage on 1handers and 0-7( or 8) on 2handers.

When you make bonuses gravitate people to a certain choice, you will find players all looking and playing the same. Keep our options open and keep them balanced.

I'd also love to see a berserker have the option to hold a shield. Would be fantastic if you can forgo having a bow equipped and have your 2nd weapon set be a 1hander and shield, for when you need tooff tank, or you bit off more aggro than you can chew.

Would love to have the ability to spam some AoE with a 2hander, then guts and whip out the sword and board, to tank up the backlash, while they get CC'd

 

[Undone]

I'd like build options and decisions beyond role specialization. I dont want all that separates 2 berserkers, to be gear selection.

I've made suggestions in the past for talent systems, but there are so many ways to accomplish this. Even if it's just a simple choice, like one ability specialization. IE, this berzerker specialized in Fury for more single target DPS, and the other one specialized in Wild Strikes for more AoE.

The more meaningful and plentiful the specialization options and opportunity, the better imo.

There should be some class identity for two players of the same class to share, but the more opportunity for deviation, the better imo, as the character increases in tier.

The goal has always been to allow you to pick which abilities upgrade (while not allowing you to pick all of them) as opposed to just upgrading them automatically. Everything else is just a higher priority right now which is why we haven't swung back around to this.

One more berserker critique I noticed on the codex tool tip. It said 0-5 damage bonus on 1 hand weapons and ranged weapons... what the heck man? Why cant a two-handed beserker enjoy this. Seems to me, this bonus would be more compounded and impactful while dual wielding... why totally take it from the great weapon bezerker? Please take the bonus away from bows and give it to two-handed. Maybe consider making it 40% more potent with twohanders, for balance. IE 0-5 bonus damage on 1handers and 0-7( or 8) on 2handers.

When you make bonuses gravitate people to a certain choice, you will find players all looking and playing the same. Keep our options open and keep them balanced.

This is likely an issue with the data that occurred when we migrated to the new stats configuration; we'll get it fixed.

I'd also love to see a berserker have the option to hold a shield. Would be fantastic if you can forgo having a bow equipped and have your 2nd weapon set be a 1hander and shield, for when you need tooff tank, or you bit off more aggro than you can chew.

Shields are reserved for Defenders - sorry!

 

[Blyte Plays]

This is good news! But I hope you'd consider like a small round shield for some support and a few strikers.

 

[Undone]

This is good news! But I hope you'd consider like a small round shield for some support and a few strikers.

Unlikely. Being able to easily identify what role someone is by the weapons they carry is very important. Allowing supporters or strikers to carry shields would make that much more difficult to do.

 

[Mallin]

I would like to see further spec options down the road. Example Striker - Warden - Say level 40 new Spec options. Ranger - Druid. Gives players goals and further diversity. Just throwing out ideas. Def - Knight - Paladin or Cavalier. Im sure we could all come up with more specs. LOL

 

[csthao]

The berserker class seems limited especially in group play. Their aoe abilities become pointless when the group is trying to CC adds, so they can't be used.
I feel like they could have a couple of their abilities do some kind of debuff. It helps make them a viable choice in groups. Wardens and Brigands have utilities that makes them unique. Berserkers have 2 aoe abilities they can't even use in group play.
Their abilities could lower ac, make them take more damage from certain types of melee damage, or slow their movement. Anything!

 

[mutuh]

The berserker class seems limited especially in group play. Their aoe abilities become pointless when the group is trying to CC adds, so they can't be used.
I feel like they could have a couple of their abilities do some kind of debuff. It helps make them a viable choice in groups. Wardens and Brigands have utilities that makes them unique. Berserkers have 2 aoe abilities they can't even use in group play.
Their abilities could lower ac, make them take more damage from certain types of melee damage, or slow their movement. Anything!

I agree with this here. I was originally going to pick Berserker, but opted not to because I imagined playing in a group and the AoE causing more harm than good.

I think it's cool to have a damage focus spec, but it shouldn't lean on its AoE for it's uniqueness. I'm level 20 and haven't been in group that has ever said "okay let's AoE this down."

 

[Blyte Plays]

I used to have these concerns about AoE, but it definitely has its uses, and in some situations, is preferable to CC. We get a 3rd AoE at lvl 30, and it is friggin nuts.

Even without any of this AoE, the zerk is the top DPS, so I'm not complaining about the chassis. I'm complaining, about the lack of meaningful choices, beyond gear selection. I have no talent system or anything like it, and I want one. The gear choices are too narrow, and I feel striker specialists should get variety in their gear options. Example, brigand should get access to xbows and not great axes, zerkers should get round shields and not daggers. Only the warden should get longbows... the list could go on and on, but no, all of them get the same gear set and its lame imo

 

[kingdaddy]

Unlikely. Being able to easily identify what role someone is by the weapons they carry is very important. Allowing supporters or strikers to carry shields would make that much more difficult to do.

I don't agree with the STR getting shields but why is easily identifying what role someone is very important? I'm not trying to be facetious, I just don't know why. I hear this a lot in games though, mostly for pvp.

 

[Undone]

why is easily identifying what role someone is very important? I'm not trying to be facetious, I just don't know why. I hear this a lot in games though, mostly for pvp.

Imagine you are running by a group in need of assistance. Who do you help up first? How do you know who is important to keeping their group alive? Is their tank down? Is their healer down? In the current system you can easily identify who is who based on what weapons they have equipped at a glance. Without this separation you would have to either do a "/who" command on each of them or individually click on each player and look at a UI element to identify them - and by that point it may be too late to help.

This abstract example can really apply to any situation in our game. It's a subtle thing that most likely do not notice, but if it were absent I have a feeling they would notice.

 

[kingdaddy]

That makes sense, thank you!

 

[csthao]

Imagine you are running by a group in need of assistance. Who do you help up first? How do you know who is important to keeping their group alive? Is their tank down? Is their healer down? In the current system you can easily identify who is who based on what weapons they have equipped at a glance. Without this separation you would have to either do a "/who" command on each of them or individually click on each player and look at a UI element to identify them - and by that point it may be too late to help.

This abstract example can really apply to any situation in our game. It's a subtle thing that most likely do not notice, but if it were absent I have a feeling they would notice.

It would be beneficial if we can target players or npcs at a farther distance than what we can at the moment. It could solve this issue pretty easy once you get into close range.

 

[Blyte Plays]

Having more individualizing options, easily trumps an outsider's ability to quickly access what role a party member is.

Dark Age of Camelot had plenty of folks using shields besides a tank, and seemed to do just fine.

 

[asteldian]

Imagine you are running by a group in need of assistance. Who do you help up first? How do you know who is important to keeping their group alive? Is their tank down? Is their healer down? In the current system you can easily identify who is who based on what weapons they have equipped at a glance. Without this separation you would have to either do a "/who" command on each of them or individually click on each player and look at a UI element to identify them - and by that point it may be too late to help.

This abstract example can really apply to any situation in our game. It's a subtle thing that most likely do not notice, but if it were absent I have a feeling they would notice.

Could this not be easily resolved by having an option in the UI to have nameplates reflect role? In the same way EQ had different colours based on if someone was /roleplay or PvP flagged etc. Support/Defender/DPS could have a different nameplate colour. For those that don't want that they can just leave the option unselected for default nameplate colours.
Not that I am particularly concerned whether people can use shields, just thinking this would make identifying who needs help even easier and quicker - I am not as young as I once was, so coloured nameplates would be much easier for me to see than trying to identify weapons on the battlefield

I'd like build options and decisions beyond role specialization. I dont want all that separates 2 berserkers, to be gear selection.

I've made suggestions in the past for talent systems, but there are so many ways to accomplish this. Even if it's just a simple choice, like one ability specialization. IE, this berzerker specialized in Fury for more single target DPS, and the other one specialized in Wild Strikes for more AoE.

The more meaningful and plentiful the specialization options and opportunity, the better imo.

There should be some class identity for two players of the same class to share, but the more opportunity for deviation, the better imo, as the character increases in tier.

While I agree that talents/choices to separate specialisations more is something I would want to see further down the line, I feel that at this point in time, a simpler solution would be more skills in general - the benefit of a limited hotbar is that you don't have to worry about excess skill bloat. Having more skills gives players more choices and 'customisation' of their hotbar, this in itself creates variations of the same class without the need for more 'permanant' choices.
Guild Wars 1 is an example of an extreme case of this (but very well done), each class and weapon had so many skills related to it you could actually make a crazy amount of different builds with the same class and weapon.
I understand creating new, interesting and balanced skills is no easy feat, but I feel that in a game with a limited hotbar it is important to make the most of the freedom it gives devs in terms of not worrying about skill bloat where players are using 30+ skills. If I have a limited hotbar but also have only say 8 skills worth using, the hotbar just feels like an annoying and unnecessary restriction rather than an important aspect of the game that allows me to 'customise' my char to my playstyle

 

[Undone]

Could this not be easily resolved by having an option in the UI to have nameplates reflect role? In the same way EQ had different colours based on if someone was /roleplay or PvP flagged etc. Support/Defender/DPS could have a different nameplate colour. For those that don't want that they can just leave the option unselected for default nameplate colours.
Not that I am particularly concerned whether people can use shields, just thinking this would make identifying who needs help even easier and quicker - I am not as young as I once was, so coloured nameplates would be much easier for me to see than trying to identify weapons on the battlefield

We currently color nameplates based on if they are in your group or not. Second to that - not everyone plays with nameplates on so this solution would only work for some. That's not to say we couldn't add some sort of UI element to nameplates to help in that regard.

 

[asteldian]

We currently color nameplates based on if they are in your group or not. Second to that - not everyone plays with nameplates on so this solution would only work for some. That's not to say we couldn't add some sort of UI element to nameplates to help in that regard.

I figured it wouldn't be a perfect or simple solution, but may be a good solution - I don't think it would conflict with the current system of nameplates changing colour in groups as that would override the other settings anyway and hopefully you know who you need to save within your own group anyway
Not everyone playing with nameplates is a fair point so that is where the current system works, but I would definitely be grateful for a colour option for those that do use nameplates. Obviously this is just a nice to have and not some high priority item, but would definitely appreciate it being considered

 

[Undone]

I figured it wouldn't be a perfect or simple solution, but may be a good solution - I don't think it would conflict with the current system of nameplates changing colour in groups as that would override the other settings anyway and hopefully you know who you need to save within your own group anyway
Not everyone playing with nameplates is a fair point so that is where the current system works, but I would definitely be grateful for a colour option for those that do use nameplates. Obviously this is just a nice to have and not some high priority item, but would definitely appreciate it being considered

I think we would favor some sort of icon over a color change. Nameplate color changes should be minimal so you can easily tell friends from foe. Expanding the nameplate options is certainly on my list of things to do but those tasks are mainly to allow for further customization on which nameplates are shown (guild only, etc). I would be more in favor of adding some sort of identifiable icon if that is really something the community feels is important - buuuut any icons already look kind of weird on world space UI.