[Poll] Flux drops in groups - need or greed?

[Deleted member 32699]

There are some unwritten rules regarding loot in dungeon groups:
You roll need on weapon or armour upgrades, unknown recipes and - in the case of Embers Adrift - also on class-specific resources (like... ugh... urine) - on everything else you roll greed or (if you're generous) pass.

So far, so proven - and most people stick to it (although I was in a group yesterday where half the people rolled need on *everything* - and when asked why: "We need money". Whelp, I didn't stay long).

But what about flux?

You could argue that everyone needs it for their professions - or (since everyone needs it) you could just as well greed it.

I haven't been in many dungeon groups yet - and so far it's been about 50/50 between "everyone needs" and "everyone greeds".

How do you know or handle this?

 

[Yarpen Zig]

Generally parties adopt a round robin system for flux. Basically roll need till you get one then reset once everyone has one. I generally pass on the first round as I have more than enough but if you're going through the game your first time round robin seems to be the most accepted way of handling it.

Loot generally ends up being one of the most contentious parts of the game. Leaning towards over communicating and trying to be as fair as possible leads to the best outcome socially in my experience.

People that are toxic or greedy with loot often end up struggling to fill groups by the mid 20s organically. It sucks, especially with how small the community is.

 

[Deleted member 32699]

Good input - I totally forgot about round robin and added it as a choice (if you've already voted, you can change your vote by the way).

And I agree with you - good communication is king / queen (not just in-game, but in life in general).

 

[Mynno]

I personally will always roll for Flux in my crafting range since I very often make infused items and then give them to players who need them. The exceptions when I do not roll is when the flux is below my crafting level then I pass on it or if above then I will roll for it but once I get one then I pass until everyone in the group gets one at which point I will start rolling on them again.

 

[Elloa]

As Zig is saying, the common etiquette on the server is to use the ROUND ROBBIN METHOD. Players need (unless they don't care), and those who winpass until everyone got a flux.
But it is always better to ask before hand, especially with new players, not everyone is aware of that "etiquette".

It is also up to every group to decide. If someone organise a group and decide to do different it's up to them, but it will be better to announce it before hand as most regular players may have different expectations

 

[nautilus]

The flux really only matter the first few levels in a new bracket, every 10 levels I ended up with 50+ flux by the end of it. The only time its an issue is level 1-20 but once the XP starts to slow down, they are no longer an issue.

 

[Deleted member 32699]

You are right.

When I created this survey almost a week ago, I had only been playing for a few days and thought that flux was pretty rare.

In the meantime, there are already a few in my inventory - nowhere near 50, but still - so things are much more relaxed than I expected.

 

[x1101011x]

Can someone please explain to me why round robin is the current etiquette?

With round robin, people have to remember who looted what, and then enforce it. If people don't adhere to the system, then they get an extra chance, and this has to be offset with social pressure, which means developing grudges against people, which is bad for a low population game.

All this, just for a slightly lower variance in drops that apparently people tend to get enough of anyway. Is it worth it?

Why not just all need? Same expectation, and any deviation only hurts yourself, so no grudges needed.

 

[Deleted member 32699]

I think you're overthinking this.

Most of the people here on the server are nice and relaxed - and if you make an agreement: We're doing round robin, then everyone sticks to it and people trust each other enough to stick to it.

Nobody holds grudges.

Also, you don't have to memorise anything, because I assume that the probability of more than 6 flux (fluxes?, fluxi?) dropping in a dungeon is low (but maybe I'm wrong - my char is only level 17).

And even if more than 6 flux (fluxes?, fluxi?) dropped - since everyone who already won a flux would pass, it would be noticeable at that point and people would realise that everyone gets to roll again.

But you asked why.

I think it has something to do with fairness.

I'm sure we've all been in dungeon groups where everyone followed the need / greed etiquette, but then one person got repeatedly lucky with the dice.
He may have won fairly, but the others still came away empty-handed.

That can't happen with round robin.

 

[x1101011x]

Nobody holds grudges.

If nobody holds grudges, then they're not enforcing the rule.

Regardless, it seems like everyone else is overthinking it, trying to invent convoluted systems for "fairness", when just rolling all need is perfectly fair, as well as simpler to manage and not exploitable (even if disguised as a friendly mistake).

Besides, if a multiple of six doesn't drop, then someone's going home with fewer, and if less than six drop, someone's going home with none anyway. I just don't understand why everyone needs to reinvent the wheel when it's already optimal.

 

[Deleted member 32699]

My point was that if everyone in a dungeon group sticks to the round robin agreement, there won't be any trouble or grudges - and my experience in this regard has been very positive so far.

As far as fairness is concerned, let's assume that - easiest example - 6 flux drop in the course of a dungeon.

In the dungeon group that has agreed to always roll need, it's very likely that one or even more people end up with nothing while others take two or even more flux (in the worst case, one person wins all 6 and the others go away empty-handed).

In the dungeon group that has agreed on round robin, every group member has a guaranteed flux drop at the end.

The outcome is similar regardless if it's 4, 6 or 8 drops - in the "everyone needs" group there is always the probability of more or less blatant inequality due to bad luck while in the round robin group the inequality is reduced to the bare minimum.

I think ultimately it comes down to personal philosophy (and the experiences you've had with others).

Put simply, you seem to trust dice more than humans (humans err and cheat - dice, on the other hand, are incorruptible).

In contrast people who adopt round robin seem to trust humans more than dice (luck is capricious and often unfair - humans, on the other hand, are reasonable).

As you seem comfortable with your views, far be it from me to convince you otherwise - and then you've already found the optimal system for you.

The most important thing - as @Yarpen Zig and @Elloa already wrote - is to openly communicate what you want, ideally right after the formation of a dungeon group.

 

[Elloa]

If nobody holds grudges, then they're not enforcing the rule.

Regardless, it seems like everyone else is overthinking it, trying to invent convoluted systems for "fairness", when just rolling all need is perfectly fair, as well as simpler to manage and not exploitable (even if disguised as a friendly mistake).

Besides, if a multiple of six doesn't drop, then someone's going home with fewer, and if less than six drop, someone's going home with none anyway. I just don't understand why everyone needs to reinvent the wheel when it's already optimal.

This is not a "rule" per say. It is more an agrement that players are going by - usually, in most groups - this is done to ensure everyone get their chance at earning a flux.
We have a small community, most poeple know each others, and have learned to play with each other. Poeple are helpful, helping each others and sharing.
As players are thinking of other players in the group, once they got a flux, they pass, to ensure the other players have a chance to get a flux. It has become a natural behaviour. like something polite and nice to do. That's it.

But if you don't like doing this, feel free to do differently. This is not an "official rule" of the game. More so, the politness of the community.

 

[Jorelorf]

I wish there were some spot where we can put notes on the group so everyone who joins the group can check the group rules, instead of leader saying them over and over.

I didnt know a mmo who does this, but should be a good idea hehe