Class System Needs Improvement

[Lunamagic]

It is not because something you want in the game is not implemented in the game that we are ignoring you. In the post above I've explained in lenght the reasons why a feature that you wish may not be implemented in the game.

This is not just about my personal preferences. Some of these ideas are not fully mine either. You can read about these same issues I have brought up above on gaming forums, reddit, discord, and EA forums. This is not news. If a reoccurring issue is consistently being brought to your attention, is this enough to merit the issue being looked into and immediately brainstorm ways on how this could be improved upon? Gameplay issues are a common deal-breaker for most players on the market. How many players will need to keep restating what you already know in order to make a priority.

I understand there's several factors that go into development into a game and sometimes content takes time. After looking at the roadmap, I'm not really sure how it addresses what has been repeatedly asked for.

1> You want more variety of content: we are working on the hunting log that will be released soon

This does NOT address the variety of content or the sense of accomplishment that people want. Achievements should be recognized for content that takes quite a bit of skill and strategy to do so it gives a sense of self accomplishment and they are proud and feel good about the achievement they've earned. Killing 1000 bears does not take a certain amount of skill that is different than any other content in the game. It only takes effort and repetition. There's a difference.

1> You want more classe fantasy: we are working on epic quest for each class to get epic weapons

This is not class fantasy that is being asked. Cool weapons/loot are great. However, with class fantasy, they not only want a cool weapon (who doesn't want cool loot), but they also want ABILITIES that sets them apart from other classes and makes combat exciting. Not saying you don't have a start on the uniqueness of classes but it needs to be improved.

You have been part of a very intence discussion (that I had to moderate on Discord) related to the healer abilities targeting. This discussion has been read, considered and discussed and you can now see the result in this week patch on QA.

I've read the QA patch notes and I'm glad this discussion was considered and a solution has been presented. However, I'm skeptical of the outcome and I'll have to test if it permanently solves the issue. The most irritating part of this all is I had to get into a heated debate, argue with the devs about the mechanics of other healing mechanics in other games, and looked as bringing negativity into the discussion. Only to find at the end of the day, this is something that could be tested and fixed in a timely manner this whole time. We also find that this is an issue that was currently being researched but instead of admitting that was the case, its the argumentative nature from the devs and acting like this issue isn't something that should be improved upon. This is an extremely negative experience from someone who is trying to help the game.

 

[Elloa]

1> You want more variety of content: we are working on the hunting log that will be released soon
This does NOT address the variety of content or the sense of accomplishment that people want. Achievements should be recognized for content that takes quite a bit of skill and strategy to do so it gives a sense of self accomplishment and they are proud and feel good about the achievement they've earned. Killing 1000 bears does not take a certain amount of skill that is different than any other content in the game. It only takes effort and repetition. There's a difference.
1> You want more classe fantasy: we are working on epic quest for each class to get epic weapons
This is not class fantasy that is being asked. Cool weapons/loot are great. However, with class fantasy, they not only want a cool weapon (who doesn't want cool loot), but they also want ABILITIES that sets them apart from other classes and makes combat exciting. Not saying you don't have a start on the uniqueness of classes but it needs to be improved.

So the two examples quoted here, are two examples I used to illustarted my point. It is in no way an unique solution. It is just features (among others) that we are working on to go in the direction wished. I hope this clarify that point.

The most irritating part of this all is I had to get into a heated debate, argue with the devs about the mechanics of other healing mechanics in other games, and looked as bringing negativity into the discussion. Only to find at the end of the day, this is something that could be tested and fixed in a timely manner this whole time. We also find that this is an issue that was currently being researched but instead of admitting that was the case, its the argumentative nature from the devs and acting like this issue isn't something that should be improved upon.

The QA changes that you see implemented yesterday is something that Undone work on, following up the discussion on the Discord-forums. It was not something we were working on previously. It is a direct reaction to that talk.

Very often I see this argument "You are not listening. You are ignoring us". NO. We do not ignore you. This is just UNTRUE. We do read, we do listen, we do consider and we discuss what you guys are bringing up. Sometimes we act on it fast (like this week for this example mentioned). Sometimes it take time. Sometimes we can't. And sometimes we disagree.

 

[Colanius]

1> You want more classe fantasy: we are working on epic quest for each class to get epic weapons

I don't want to sound negative, but that's not class fantasy. That's just a quest, probably a very tedious one, to get a slightly better weapon (or even mandatory BiS) but classes are still not being reworked, they are still bland and lacking personality with or without the epic weapon.

Concerning the epic quest itself I think it's a bad idea to gatekeep a powerful item behind a questline. In the short term, yeah it's ok, everybody is doing it when it launches, but then in the long run, if new people are not coming to the game and you were not part of the initial wave of people that did that quest, you'll fall behind being unable to complete it, and if it ends being a mandatory BiS, people will quit frustrated. It's happening right now with lower levels trying to finish the first quests in the starting area, so few new people around and every quest is mandatory group content...

- A well-rounded example of gatekeeping an item: Seeking Thunderfury in wow classic as a fresh tank, in the Naxx patch where everyone is farming Naxx and you want to start the quest for the legendary sword. How screwed are you as a new tank trying to get that weapon and all the mats once the first raid is not being run anymore? or your guild doesn't want to waste time helping you?

Good loot, should be in dungeons/world bosses. Places with RNG and constant farming, not quests with different steps and stages where people can't keep up.

Also, if you're doing an epic quest, make more/better choices to reward. The crafting quests are very disappointing only giving you one option, for example, the weaponsmith quest gives you a 1 hander, what if my playstyle is 2 hander I'm getting screwed there? (I know the quest itself has the blade story, but once you deliver all your goods, Xanton could ask you which weapon you want him to make for you because of his gratitude, that's just simple quest 101).

Same for the other crafting quests, especially the armor ones, what if I have already a good chest piece and I want another piece of armor like a helm or gloves or legs? You can't choose and the lack of choice is frustrating.

And by that example, every single quest is lacking options for all classes, other quests giving you worthless items or then you have the other extreme kind of quest where you have more than 10+ option rewards and you can pick only one instead of having all those good options balanced around other mediocre rewarded quests along the map.

Balance the rewards options better.

 

[Undone]

I've read the QA patch notes and I'm glad this discussion was considered and a solution has been presented. However, I'm skeptical of the outcome and I'll have to test if it permanently solves the issue. The most irritating part of this all is I had to get into a heated debate, argue with the devs about the mechanics of other healing mechanics in other games, and looked as bringing negativity into the discussion. Only to find at the end of the day, this is something that could be tested and fixed in a timely manner this whole time. We also find that this is an issue that was currently being researched but instead of admitting that was the case, its the argumentative nature from the devs and acting like this issue isn't something that should be improved upon. This is an extremely negative experience from someone who is trying to help the game.

I'm sorry you felt I was being argumentative. In my initial reply I intentionally said "I'm not saying there is no room for improvement" because I was simply wanting to add context; for design issues like this I feel that context is important as it tells a story about how we reached a certain point. At no time was I trying to inflame the situation or incite arguments. My goal is to always have a discussion about things; but in order to have a productive conversation I feel that context is important.

The other day we had a prolonged discussion on Discord regarding the mob and angle issues in the qa-chat which inspired me to think of things in a different way, which led me to the potential fixes you are referring to. And if you read that conversation you'll see that a previous solution was not found previously due to the inconsistencies of the problem's manifestation, coupled with the fact that it's a combination of multiple issues that require disentanglement. At the end of the day discussions can help inspire different solutions to problems that have been around for a while.

And we are frequently researching different games in how they handle pain points that players bring up - but I don't think that's something we have ever shied away from admitting? In the past I have personally been accused of being defensive in discussions when my intention is simply to have a discussion and provide further context. This is something I have actively tried to improve in my correspondence with players but I obviously have more work to do.