Checking back in

[Lord Argus]

Still no real magic system, I see. Oh well, I'll check back in another year, have fun all!

 

[Elloa]

Heya!

Are you aware of our Alchemy system? Players at level 20 and and from every classes, can start a chain quest to unlock Alchemy. Each abilities can be empowered with Ember Essence, and have an extra power + light particle effects. For example, First Aid (suporters) become without stamina cost (very useful in tense situation when healers run out of stamina), or stun (brigand) can be casted at long range. A second power, even more powerful, can be unlocked by using the first power.
Whilst not "tradition magic" such as wizard and necromancian, our system offers another layer of strategy during combat. When using Alchemy? When saving Alchemy? What abilities to place on your bar depending of the content you are doing, or the other players in your group?
Lore wise, there is much to discover about Alchemy and how to use Ember...

You can try our game for FREE with the free trial, or -if you possess the game already - play with no subcription. So if you want to try our game and give it a go, this weekend would be perfect, and you do not have to spent a cent!

 

[nikgervae]

Alchemy's pretty rad.

 

[North]

Alchemy makes it a whole different game, the animations and increased amped up effects make the skills seem fresh and exciting, managing the Ember as a resource feels like mana management. Sure there isn't a recharge in the normal fashion, meaning you must refill the ember on your ember stone but it still feels like magic in many ways.

 

[Keiban]

Having to fiddle around with modifier keys and the increased cast times pretty much kills it for me.

 

[North]

ok

 

[nikgervae]

Alchemy makes it a whole different game, the animations and increased amped up effects make the skills seem fresh and exciting, managing the Ember as a resource feels like mana management. Sure there isn't a recharge in the normal fashion, meaning you must refill the ember on your ember stone but it still feels like magic in many ways.

Yeah it feels so much more like magic than just, well, magically doing stuff without effort. You have to go harvest a (thankfully reasonably harvestable) resource, decide when it's worth using, etc.

Having to fiddle around with modifier keys and the increased cast times pretty much kills it for me.

But yeah mod keys (especially alt) are a pain. You can change the keybinds. I set alch 1 & 2 to my mouse side buttons.

The 2-second increased cast times feel a bit too much to me sometimes, but I like th tradeoff they require you to make in clutch moments.

 

[MarcusFromOz]

Yeh long cast times are a killer for me, and are probably why there's only one game in which I like being a mage (because of its instant cast times).

It makes you wonder whether there were real magicians in the neolithic era, but they all died to melee due to those long cast times
Evolution is a bitch.

 

[Keiban]

The 2-second increased cast times feel a bit too much to me sometimes, but I like th tradeoff they require you to make in clutch moments.

The problem is, if it's a real clutch situation you want that ability to go out NOW. If you can afford a 3s cast (or rather 3.5-4s as you need some time to press modifier and recognize it's active), the situation probably wasn't that clutch after all.
Tradeoffs are fine and dandy, but a skill with a significant cooldown and resource cost shouldn't feel like a sidegrade IMO.
I guess my opinion also has a lot to do with me playing Berserker. A damage skill doing 2-3x the normal damage will basically never have the potential to save the day.

 

[nikgervae]

The problem is, if it's a real clutch situation you want that ability to go out NOW. If you can afford a 3s cast (or rather 3.5-4s as you need some time to press modifier and recognize it's active), the situation probably wasn't that clutch after all.

That's a very good point. I'd almost—almost—rather not have alchemy 2, and intead have toggles to do alchemy 1 as it is, and the other to not add a cast time but cost a little more ember essence.

 

[MarcusFromOz]

I wonder if the devs have considered the idea of alchemy skills you can prepare for an instant cast.

i.e. while the group is resting, you can load up an alchemy skill in advance, then insta-cast it, then you have to rest to change them from 2 second casts to instant cast again.

It could cost 50% of the ember cost to make it insta-cast and then 75% to actually cast it.

So:
- either prepare it for a once off instacast - 125% ember cost or
- just use it at 75% of the ember cost, with the induction time.

Just a thought bubble

 

[Keiban]

That's a very good point. I'd almost—almost—rather not have alchemy 2, and intead have toggles to do alchemy 1 as it is, and the other to not add a cast time but cost a little more ember essence.

I would honestly just scrap the entire system. Why are we even discussing the validity for clutch situations? Because all lesser use-cases are already out the window because of the resource cost. Every skill has to directly compete in value with a teleport. Do I rather save 10 min of walking or have 1 skill do double damage? I'd really like to see statistics on this, but my guess is 70-90% (depending on class) of Alc 1 skills never get used (after maybe leveling them).
My suggestion would be to boil it down to maybe 3 skills per class (that also get their own hotbar + keybinds, obtained at say lvl 20, 40 + 50) that are generally useful or good "oh shit" buttons.
For Berserker I could see the following:
- Berserker's Wrath (lvl 20, 15e): 0.5 DMG and 1 hit per level of the caster, group-wide Buff, lasts 30min. Doesn't stack from different Berserkers
- Berserker's Rage (lvl 40, 20e, 30min CD): For 15s you gain lvl*2 hit, become immune to all control impairing effects and swing your weapon at every enemy around you, hiting for 40+lvl*3 every second
- Berserker's Final Form (lvl 50, 40e, 60min CD): You transform into a bear, gaining 1.5 of your max hp and 60 phys resist. Your skills get replaced with things like Maul and Swipe, doing roughly 1.5 of your normal damage. Lasts 1 min.

 

[x1101011x]

The problem is, if it's a real clutch situation you want that ability to go out NOW

Not at all. You have to think ahead. For instance, if you have an already pretty tough pull, and then all of a sudden there are extra adds that you didn't plan to have, you use ember abilities NOW to do more damage and kill them faster, to mitigate more damage, or to save stamina for heals because you know you're going to run out of resources later if you don't.

Or you're the main healer, and suddenly you get aggro and go down at the start of a tough fight. You're revived, but now you have no stamina and are useless. But wait! You can put an alchemy 2 treatment on the tank and then spend the next minute regenerating stamina.

Tradeoffs are fine and dandy, but a skill with a significant cooldown and resource cost shouldn't feel like a sidegrade IMO

They're not. Alchemy 1 abilities do roughly double the effect, and alchemy 2 abilities do roughly quadruple the normal effect.

A damage skill doing 2-3x the normal damage will basically never have the potential to save the day

This is definitely not true. Killing stuff faster is always helpful. It means less damage to mitigate or heal, and it's absolutely a high priority when there are accidentally too many mobs in a pull to burn down the extras as fast as possible to relieve pressure on the healers and tanks or to free up people who are kiting. On my brigand, I find myself using alchemy a lot for unexpectedly large or difficult pulls, and it really makes a difference. (Especially alchemy advantaged strike, which all strikers get, and you can combine with other alchemy abilities to stack effects for bursting, something berserkers are really good at.)

I would honestly just scrap the entire system. Why are we even discussing the validity for clutch situations? Because all lesser use-cases are already out the window because of the resource cost.

I know I've told you this before but, again, having panic buttons makes it easier to get into your flow state. Having a high resource cost makes it so that you could enter your flow state both without using it or with using it, increasing the range of difficulty for encounters that will keep you engaged and focused.

Every skill has to directly compete in value with a teleport.

That's why there's travel essence. One strategy people use is to buy travel essence and keep your normal ember low, so that you gain ember from every kill instead of just from ember mobs. Then you can use your ember more often.

My suggestion would be to boil it down to maybe 3 skills per class (that also get their own hotbar + keybinds, obtained at say lvl 20, 40 + 50) that are generally useful or good "oh shit" buttons.

I don't really have a problem with this suggestion. I like having a lot of situational abilities and deciding what to use when. But keep in mind that this makes ember less valuable. Before my characters hit lvl 20, ember is just boring and basically always nearly full. Having an ember sink like alchemy makes ember feel good to get, and you'll always need to get more, so it gives a reason to keep playing if you enjoy gathering valuable resources.

I'd really like to see statistics on this, but my guess is 70-90% (depending on class) of Alc 1 skills never get used (after maybe leveling them)

I use alchemy abilities a lot. Some are situational (like alchemy fading strike), so they don't get used a lot because you're generally trying to avoid the situation in which they would be used in the first place. I would definitely agree, though, that a lot of alchemy abilities on my healers and tanks go unused. When I'm healing, for instance, I generally try to save my ember for healing abilities, so I don't really use things like alchemy salvo. But then, I don't really use salvo in groups either. But I would absolutely use alchemy salvo for a tough solo fight.

Also, weirdly, while most damage abilities do more damage with alchemy, strike (the terrible ability no one keeps on their bar) actually gets a heal effect for my sentinel. It's not really good, but it is interesting to note.

You transform into a bear

lol

 

[nikgervae]

My biggest issue with alchemy has become that there are so few places to go to get essence. I would really like there to be a rift in every zone, even if it's tucked away in a corner, where I could get some essence, instead of having to go way off somewhere. Even if it only filled my travel essence. This could be a quest from the essence converter guy to gain the ability, or a pay in advance sort of deal so my ember stone's travel essence cap depletes with use and I pay to expand that ahead of time and fill it at special rifts.

 

[emberral]

Would it be accurate to say you have 100-150 alchemy or whatever the cap eventually is that you have to grind to fill up, which gets depleted during game play when you use alchemy? So, basically there is a side job in Embers Adrift called "Grind Ember Essence". If you are not prepared and are out of Ember Essence, you will not be able to use it, which will make you less wanted in groups. So, everyone has to first grind EE every day when they log in once they get to 20 and can use alchemy. Accurate?