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undone wraith

wyatt_berry_earp

Active Member
who likes undone wraith....

i sure in the hell dont. i think it more op than superman in spandex.

one of the ways i think it should be handled is...

1. only able to get hit by it is if you are not in a area they can hit you back.
2. you should be in a fighting stance.
3. if you are far enough away that you cant attack in your fighting stance. you should not be hit.

example

im running for my life i jump on a rock to get away from mobs. result not damage form undone wrath.

im running for my life i jump on a rock to get away from mobs. i pull my bow, sword, out and put myself in a fighting stance. im far enough out of range that i can not hit the mob. result no damage form undone wrath

im running for my life i jump on a rock to get away from mobs. i pull my bow, sword, out and put myself in a fighting stance. im close enought to hit sad mob with attacks. result getting hit with undone wrath tell i put my wepons away. or death which ever one is first
 

Xavure

Active Member
I personnally agree that Undone's wraith being too powerful. I don't want to be rude, but this feels like a dev power trip.

Here's a few way this would work better:

- Reset the mobs back to it's original spot
- Make the mob invulnerable, so player needs to move somewhere else until the leash is broken
- could also add a log each time that is happening, so you'll be able to fix it behind the scene later on

You should reward players for finding spot where mobs cannot reach you, by ask for a report not punish them. if a player is creative enough, I think he deserve to be able to run away from mobs.

If you really wanna keep this mechanic, you need to fix all of those situation where it hits you incorrectly. New player do not understand, what is happening to them. For exemple, "you pull a mob and it get stuck in a bad nav mesh, boom Undone's wrath......"
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
Please do not act like I am on some power trip and am out to kill you every chance I get. The name was a joke and I'm more than happy to change it if that will ease concerns. Also keep in mind that this was not added to the game for "flavor" or "fun"; it was added as an anti-exploit mechanic to prevent players from escaping situations where they should have fallen in combat. Each of the alternative solutions you suggest here were discussed at length back when this was initially implemented. They all provide a "get out of jail free" card to the players by allowing them to control NPC behavior in some fashion.

Now, I will admit that the effect may be a bit too punishing as it exponentially raises in power. That is something we can tweak relatively easily.

1. only able to get hit by it is if you are not in a area they can hit you back.
This is the intent of the current implementation. The nav mesh is not perfect and hence some places that it appears they should be able to reach you they cannot.

2. you should be in a fighting stance.
So if you drop out of fighting chance then you don't get hit by it? That puts the decision in the player's hands. In what situation would you ever stay in combat stance in that case?

3. if you are far enough away that you cant attack in your fighting stance. you should not be hit.
The server only checks if you can attack an NPC when you attempt an execution. Adding additional checks to see if you are exploiting would put an additional load on the server's NPC calcs. But I also don't quite see how this would work.

- Reset the mobs back to it's original spot
"Get out of jail free" card. Once a player finds a spot that triggers this why would they NOT fight there? It's a "safe" spot where they can reset the mob any time they get in trouble.

- Make the mob invulnerable, so player needs to move somewhere else until the leash is broken
Again this is a different from of the above "get out of jail free" card in essentially being a pause button. The player can simply trigger this and regenerate until they are ready to reengage. Or if they are in a group they can just lock the mob up until their group recovers, and then reengage.

- could also add a log each time that is happening, so you'll be able to fix it behind the scene later on
Agree on this point. Logging can be improved I just haven't had the damn time :(
 

Xavure

Active Member
The problem is most of the time we are hit by wrath, it's caused by either bad pathing or broken nav mesh and not because we try to exploit the game. So the anti-exploit, become an anti-gameplay.

- Gators pulled from the water will often hit you from way too far with that.....
- Pulling a mob that get stuck on a rock or some weird pathing will get you hit by wrath......
And there's probably more situations, that I'm not aware of.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
The problem is most of the time we are hit by wrath, it's caused by either bad pathing or broken nav mesh and not because we try to exploit the game. So the anti-exploit, become an anti-gameplay.
Which is precisely why we ask for feedback so we can fix these things.

- Gators pulled from the water will often hit you from way too far with that.....
This was a bug addressed this week.

- Pulling a mob that get stuck on a rock or some weird pathing will get you hit by wrath......
And there's probably more situations, that I'm not aware of.
Mobs do not care if THEY are stuck in a rock etc etc --> they only care if there is navigation under their target. If you find a particular situation where what you are describing here happens please report it so we can investigate.
 

Xavure

Active Member
I still think that escaping should be a possibility, climbing on a rock or going ways to get away is fun. Now that it's removed, we just die and get our bags back. /unfun
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
I still think that escaping should be a possibility, climbing on a rock or going ways to get away is fun. Now that it's removed, we just die and get our bags back. /unfun
What do you mean by "now that it is removed"? Undone's wrath has been in the game since April 6th which is nearly 4 months.

Do you think players should have a get out of jail free with very limited consequences card that they can play at any time? That's what you are asking me to allow.
 

Xavure

Active Member
What do you mean by "now that it is removed"? Undone's wrath has been in the game since April 6th which is nearly 4 months.
It has been removed since 4 months :p

Do you think players should have a get out of jail free with very limited consequences card that they can play at any time? That's what you are asking me to allow.
Yes I do think that if a player finds a way to get out of combat, it deserve to win. Use of the terrain, has always been a thing in every game I've played and I think it's fun when you find it.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
Yes I do think that if a player finds a way to get out of combat, it deserve to win. Use of the terrain, has always been a thing in every game I've played and I think it's fun when you find it.
Circumventing an NPC's ability to reach you to gain an advantage is an exploit regardless of the player's intent.
 

Xavure

Active Member
I don't see it like that, if you're able to find a way to escape, you deserve to win plain and simple.
This is not exploit, this is creativity. If you don't want players to escape there, block it, adds some bigger rock.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
I don't see it like that, if you're able to find a way to escape, you deserve to win plain and simple.
This is not exploit, this is creativity. If you don't want players to escape there, block it, adds some bigger rock.
If you can prevent the NPC from reaching you, and subsequently they cannot attack you then you have a way to basically pause the game and prevent consequence. To me, that is a textbook definition of an exploit. You are more than welcome to use the terrain/rocks/props to your advantage when it comes to line of sight.

Our goal is to make it so you never encounter this issue - but that requires feedback from the community when they find themselves in situations where this occurs when they believe that it should not. Our zones are quite large and we simply do not have the time to review every square meter of the nav mesh with a fine toothed comb. Yes, we should not let you up into those places, but again, that requires time and feedback from you guys so we can address it. The solution here is continual feedback, reports, and work on our part to repair the broken spots - not to allow the game to be exploited.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
I am improving the logging surrounding this right now to ease the report burden on players. Also note changes in the patch notes regarding the strength.
 

wyatt_berry_earp

Active Member
I still think that escaping should be a possibility, climbing on a rock or going ways to get away is fun. Now that it's removed, we just die and get our bags back. /unfun
i agree if im out in the wild and getting chased by a bear ( you should run down hill bears have small legs in the front makes it hard to run down hills.) i would be trying to climb on things to get out of reach. if the game alows it lol. but there should be thing we can climb on that make it so that we dont die.

i get that you dont want people to exploit the game. but when you dont have all the content in like feigh death ( lol ) or something similar to stop or help players. players get tired of dyeing and having down time. to me it make me feel that the game is being strangled.

sometimes both sides need to make compromises. might need to look into a mechanic that can help players better survive in a bad situation. and making it to easy just lame so lets try to figure something out. almost all the time you can reach me on discord to talk about ideas and pick my brain or just talk to see what i think. im sure there are others that feel the same way.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
We have always talked internally about a "sprint for stamina" ability but that isn't going to work in every situation. There is no perfect solution here.