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TOPIC: The gaming community is changing. Is the industry following?

Elloa

Elloa

Administrator
Stormhaven Studios

Ember-Twitter Fix.png​

TOPIC: The gaming community is changing. Is the industry following?​

I've read an interesting article on Massively Overpowered that I would like to discuss with you. You can read the full article for yourself, it's not very long.

It is very clear that MMORPGS have evolved along the years, and it's very clear too that there is a part of the MMORPG community that is unsatisfied with the current games on the market, or are seeking another experience. As MMORPGs take a long time and a lot of resources to be developed, there is a gap between the community's needs and desires and the games being released. This is why we have had several years of absolute stagnancy, with only few titles striving, and now all of sudden a new generation of MMORPGs is releasing new titles after new titles.
What we can observe with MMORPG such as Crowfall, New World, Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, Palia, and obviously our game Embers Adrift, each of those games are offering their own take, their very own perspective, and their very own answers to the current unsatisfaction of the MMORPG gaming community. And, because each of them brings a different take, players will be able to choose what suits their needs or their mood much better than they could do in the past.
These new games have shifted focus; they are much more targeted than before. There is less effort being spent on pleasing a large audience in favor of providing a unique experience to a more specific audience. Some of these new MMORPGs focus on PvP, others on PvE, and still others on a more crafting and chilling vibe - all of these are good for the future of MMORPGs!Clearly, players are not wishing for the same things as they were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. The success of The Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy XIV are largely due to their ability to offer relaxing, chill, wholesome content to their players. And the fact that a MMORPG that focuses on getting along with your neighbours and cultivating your garden is being developed is also very significant.

Is it due to the first generations of MMORPG players reaching a certain maturity in their life? Have we reached the stage of the gamer retirement home as certain MMORPGs are specifically designed for an aging community? Or, is it due to something else, something a bit more subtle and more profound?


My opinion​


This is my take on things: Not only has the gaming community aged (while several new generations of gamers have arrived), but also the world is changing... In recent times, and especially last year, we've seen these changes happening very fast. It is exhausting, and a lot of us need to constantly re-adjust in our real lives. For most of us gaming is a way of escaping the harsh realities of the world. Maybe in the past gamers were looking to break feelings such as boredom, lack of purpose, and loneliness, and for that exciting, adventurous, and challenging games were perfect to meet those needs of engagement that people may have been lacking in the real world. Now that life has become more challenging and the world is more threatening, we may not want to take refuge in games that are introducing us to more stress and adrenaline. More and more gamers just want to escape to beautiful worlds, interesting stories, or relax with calm activities such as crafting. More and more gamers are aspiring to find drama-free communities rather than competitive environments. And more and more gamers aspire to bond with others in games.

You can see that there is a common point between all MMORPGS I have mentioned above, and despite all of their differences, COMMUNITY is a big focus in all of them. All those titles want to bring back the experience of a striving, dynamic community and each of them addresses the needs of a different community. Community is exactly the main focus of Embers Adrift and the core of our game. We want YOU to use our game to make friends and wonderful memories together!

To me it feels like the gaming community is softening, in a beautiful way. I do not believe this is due to a part of the community ageing, but rather that the world is changing outside and we are changing within more than ever. This is part of a deeper change in humankind and it is beginning to show in the gaming community in a very clear way. I always found gaming, and especially MMORPGs, to be the best tool to observe human behaviours. We are living interesting times... The gaming community has expanded a lot in the last twenty years. What was once a very niche and very nerdy hobby has become something mainstream and accessible to almost everyone in all corners of the world. Therefore, obviously, as there are more players, there are many more personalities, more points of view, interests, cultures, needs, and desires. The gaming industry needs to adapt to the wants of an ever growing, ever diversifying, ever evolving community.

This was a very hippie discussion! But hey, that's only my opinion. What is your take guys? What do you think?
Is it a topic that interests you as much as it does me? This is the exact reason why I'm passionate about MMORPGS!
 
Thanks for sharing that article, some of their discussion topics can be boiled down to just fan service, but this one I felt was really spot on. I often view games in a similar manner as mentioned in the article, we look to fill the voids in our life. There was a time in my life when sitting down and playing Everquest every day was therapeutic and connected me to other likeminded individuals which I sorely lacked in my day to day life. But now I've changed, and while original EQ is still playable thanks to the great efforts of those within the emulator community, the void it fills may be different, or I may not feel the draw to it that I once did. And I suspect others are in a similar position, looking at the massive popularity of games like Stardew Valley and Animal Crossing, I think there's a lot to that sentiment that we actively seek out to fill those voids we feel that reality has left us lacking (as long as we still look to reality first!)
 
Elloa said:

View attachment 1120​

TOPIC: The gaming community is changing. Is the industry following?​

I've read an interesting article on Massively Overpowered that I would like to discuss with you. You can read the full article for yourself, it's not very long.

It is very clear that MMORPGS have evolved along the years, and it's very clear too that there is a part of the MMORPG community that is unsatisfied with the current games on the market, or are seeking another experience. As MMORPGs take a long time and a lot of resources to be developed, there is a gap between the community's needs and desires and the games being released. This is why we have had several years of absolute stagnancy, with only few titles striving, and now all of sudden a new generation of MMORPGs is releasing new titles after new titles.
What we can observe with MMORPG such as Crowfall, New World, Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, Palia, and obviously our game Embers Adrift, each of those games are offering their own take, their very own perspective, and their very own answers to the current unsatisfaction of the MMORPG gaming community. And, because each of them brings a different take, players will be able to choose what suits their needs or their mood much better than they could do in the past.
These new games have shifted focus; they are much more targeted than before. There is less effort being spent on pleasing a large audience in favor of providing a unique experience to a more specific audience. Some of these new MMORPGs focus on PvP, others on PvE, and still others on a more crafting and chilling vibe - all of these are good for the future of MMORPGs!Clearly, players are not wishing for the same things as they were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. The success of The Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy XIV are largely due to their ability to offer relaxing, chill, wholesome content to their players. And the fact that a MMORPG that focuses on getting along with your neighbours and cultivating your garden is being developed is also very significant.

Is it due to the first generations of MMORPG players reaching a certain maturity in their life? Have we reached the stage of the gamer retirement home as certain MMORPGs are specifically designed for an aging community? Or, is it due to something else, something a bit more subtle and more profound?


My opinion​


This is my take on things: Not only has the gaming community aged (while several new generations of gamers have arrived), but also the world is changing... In recent times, and especially last year, we've seen these changes happening very fast. It is exhausting, and a lot of us need to constantly re-adjust in our real lives. For most of us gaming is a way of escaping the harsh realities of the world. Maybe in the past gamers were looking to break feelings such as boredom, lack of purpose, and loneliness, and for that exciting, adventurous, and challenging games were perfect to meet those needs of engagement that people may have been lacking in the real world. Now that life has become more challenging and the world is more threatening, we may not want to take refuge in games that are introducing us to more stress and adrenaline. More and more gamers just want to escape to beautiful worlds, interesting stories, or relax with calm activities such as crafting. More and more gamers are aspiring to find drama-free communities rather than competitive environments. And more and more gamers aspire to bond with others in games.

You can see that there is a common point between all MMORPGS I have mentioned above, and despite all of their differences, COMMUNITY is a big focus in all of them. All those titles want to bring back the experience of a striving, dynamic community and each of them addresses the needs of a different community. Community is exactly the main focus of Embers Adrift and the core of our game. We want YOU to use our game to make friends and wonderful memories together!

To me it feels like the gaming community is softening, in a beautiful way. I do not believe this is due to a part of the community ageing, but rather that the world is changing outside and we are changing within more than ever. This is part of a deeper change in humankind and it is beginning to show in the gaming community in a very clear way. I always found gaming, and especially MMORPGs, to be the best tool to observe human behaviours. We are living interesting times... The gaming community has expanded a lot in the last twenty years. What was once a very niche and very nerdy hobby has become something mainstream and accessible to almost everyone in all corners of the world. Therefore, obviously, as there are more players, there are many more personalities, more points of view, interests, cultures, needs, and desires. The gaming industry needs to adapt to the wants of an ever growing, ever diversifying, ever evolving community.

This was a very hippie discussion! But hey, that's only my opinion. What is your take guys? What do you think?
Is it a topic that interests you as much as it does me? This is the exact reason why I'm passionate about MMORPGS!
Click to expand...
This is definitely how I feel about things. I also agree with the comment that people tend to look for things in games that are missing in real life. As our society is becoming more competitive, vicious, and selfish (case in point, the pandemic: all we would have had to do was give everyone enough money to afford to stay home for a month or two and give those who can't a place to stay), I am personally looking for spaces that aren't like that
 
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Like many who have a long history in the gaming industry, I have participated in the evolution of the MMORPG from its D&D tabletop origins through EQ and WOW to ESO and many, many others. I play games today for entirely different reasons than twenty years ago. Today I expect to find immersive graphics that take full advantage of current hardware, realistic worlds where solo players and collaborative groups can exist. PvP is of zero interest and IMHO defeats the point of having an alternate world where other players are needed to survive and progress. I am not interested in hurting other players in any way, yet so many games depend on this childish mechanic for a fun factor.

I am looking for an alternative world which tickles that sense of exploration, danger, fun, co-operation, strategy, excitement and achievement.
Basically an adventure which reminds me of my younger days!

What I am NOT looking for is a stressful, competitive environment which competes with RL for my time, money and attention. In fact anything that demands frequent participation for advancement to stay on top of the latest 'uber' trend is not my cup of tea at all. But power to them. Those are not games that I, or I suspect most, mature gamers are interested in.

The companies behind these franchises are focussed on fast cash income, with the gameplay/story/immersion as a very secondary element.

As of today, there are very few games that tick all the boxes, for me at least.

The gaming industry is driven by fast $$. It always has been like that. So those studios with a vision and the ability to break out of that mould will do very well indeed, if only because the aging player demographics are demanding a different style of game which fits better with their lifestyle and wallet.
 
Elloa said:

View attachment 1120​

TOPIC: The gaming community is changing. Is the industry following?​

I've read an interesting article on Massively Overpowered that I would like to discuss with you. You can read the full article for yourself, it's not very long.

It is very clear that MMORPGS have evolved along the years, and it's very clear too that there is a part of the MMORPG community that is unsatisfied with the current games on the market, or are seeking another experience. As MMORPGs take a long time and a lot of resources to be developed, there is a gap between the community's needs and desires and the games being released. This is why we have had several years of absolute stagnancy, with only few titles striving, and now all of sudden a new generation of MMORPGs is releasing new titles after new titles.
What we can observe with MMORPG such as Crowfall, New World, Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, Palia, and obviously our game Embers Adrift, each of those games are offering their own take, their very own perspective, and their very own answers to the current unsatisfaction of the MMORPG gaming community. And, because each of them brings a different take, players will be able to choose what suits their needs or their mood much better than they could do in the past.
These new games have shifted focus; they are much more targeted than before. There is less effort being spent on pleasing a large audience in favor of providing a unique experience to a more specific audience. Some of these new MMORPGs focus on PvP, others on PvE, and still others on a more crafting and chilling vibe - all of these are good for the future of MMORPGs!Clearly, players are not wishing for the same things as they were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. The success of The Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy XIV are largely due to their ability to offer relaxing, chill, wholesome content to their players. And the fact that a MMORPG that focuses on getting along with your neighbours and cultivating your garden is being developed is also very significant.

Is it due to the first generations of MMORPG players reaching a certain maturity in their life? Have we reached the stage of the gamer retirement home as certain MMORPGs are specifically designed for an aging community? Or, is it due to something else, something a bit more subtle and more profound?


My opinion​


This is my take on things: Not only has the gaming community aged (while several new generations of gamers have arrived), but also the world is changing... In recent times, and especially last year, we've seen these changes happening very fast. It is exhausting, and a lot of us need to constantly re-adjust in our real lives. For most of us gaming is a way of escaping the harsh realities of the world. Maybe in the past gamers were looking to break feelings such as boredom, lack of purpose, and loneliness, and for that exciting, adventurous, and challenging games were perfect to meet those needs of engagement that people may have been lacking in the real world. Now that life has become more challenging and the world is more threatening, we may not want to take refuge in games that are introducing us to more stress and adrenaline. More and more gamers just want to escape to beautiful worlds, interesting stories, or relax with calm activities such as crafting. More and more gamers are aspiring to find drama-free communities rather than competitive environments. And more and more gamers aspire to bond with others in games.

You can see that there is a common point between all MMORPGS I have mentioned above, and despite all of their differences, COMMUNITY is a big focus in all of them. All those titles want to bring back the experience of a striving, dynamic community and each of them addresses the needs of a different community. Community is exactly the main focus of Embers Adrift and the core of our game. We want YOU to use our game to make friends and wonderful memories together!

To me it feels like the gaming community is softening, in a beautiful way. I do not believe this is due to a part of the community ageing, but rather that the world is changing outside and we are changing within more than ever. This is part of a deeper change in humankind and it is beginning to show in the gaming community in a very clear way. I always found gaming, and especially MMORPGs, to be the best tool to observe human behaviours. We are living interesting times... The gaming community has expanded a lot in the last twenty years. What was once a very niche and very nerdy hobby has become something mainstream and accessible to almost everyone in all corners of the world. Therefore, obviously, as there are more players, there are many more personalities, more points of view, interests, cultures, needs, and desires. The gaming industry needs to adapt to the wants of an ever growing, ever diversifying, ever evolving community.

This was a very hippie discussion! But hey, that's only my opinion. What is your take guys? What do you think?
Is it a topic that interests you as much as it does me? This is the exact reason why I'm passionate about MMORPGS!
Click to expand...


A lot of the older designs are somewhat obsolete. A lot of MMOs in the past have been going through what is essentially a checklist.
But to make a good game, every, and I mean every little aspect and system needs to be looked at.
A developer needs to ask. "Why?" and "is it fun for the player?"
Often times the why is to make things last longer, an unnaturally low droprate for bear asses. Ever bear has one. The low droprate doesn't add anything for the player.

There are also other aspects, like waiting for resources (mana/hp/stamina) You can ask. "Why" or "How long" the only positive side to that, that I remember from years of playing is talking to other player, usually when already in a group, which is a great thing, when playing solo. Not so much.
Then you can ask yourself, well, we do want players to talk and communicate with eachother, how else could we facilitate this? Providing problems along the way is a good and fun way. As an example I'll give board games. They are less popular nowadays, but when you do play them, no matter the generation. You'll have fun. There are countless possibilities with the game itself, and you communicate naturally, in monopoly you strike bargains, etc. In video-games, and MMO's in particular, the obstacles put in the way of players are static. They are always the same. Which means players eventually do it automatically. Or by increasing a mobs HP and damage values. The latter of which is probably the most uninteresting, and very jarring, especially in fps games. But in mmos too.

There are a lot of examples.

The point is, the old "time sinks" are outdated now. They have been replaced by things that cost development time. For example, the amount of time I put into housing, or mixing and matching gear.

Ironically I have more time now that I work. Back then I went to school from 9 to 3/4/5 then you'd have homework, sports, all sorts of things. I don't buy the less time part that much to be honest.

The coolest things are server wide events, the scourge invasion in TBC going to WotLK for example. Or before that, a lethal raid debuff sweeping Stormwind. The invasion of the Burning Legion from WoD > heading into Legion. These all felt so amazing...At first. Of course, they were all pretty much empty. It had no repercussions other then what they planned ahead of time. Which made them feel meaningless and empty, shallow even.

A big problem is they do the bare minimum. A minimal viable product. Imagine if the server that the plague happened on, had a completely different population, mostly dwarves, or even Gnomes that reclaimed it after the pandemic stopped, whatever. But nothing outside of a set narrative has any meaning, which makes the world feel stale, lifeless. So every step of the way. Ask yourself why, and is this fun? How can we get the effect we want from system A and have it be fun for the players. Easier said than done, I know.
 
Elloa said:

View attachment 1120​

TOPIC: The gaming community is changing. Is the industry following?​

I've read an interesting article on Massively Overpowered that I would like to discuss with you. You can read the full article for yourself, it's not very long.

It is very clear that MMORPGS have evolved along the years, and it's very clear too that there is a part of the MMORPG community that is unsatisfied with the current games on the market, or are seeking another experience. As MMORPGs take a long time and a lot of resources to be developed, there is a gap between the community's needs and desires and the games being released. This is why we have had several years of absolute stagnancy, with only few titles striving, and now all of sudden a new generation of MMORPGs is releasing new titles after new titles.
What we can observe with MMORPG such as Crowfall, New World, Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, Palia, and obviously our game Embers Adrift, each of those games are offering their own take, their very own perspective, and their very own answers to the current unsatisfaction of the MMORPG gaming community. And, because each of them brings a different take, players will be able to choose what suits their needs or their mood much better than they could do in the past.
These new games have shifted focus; they are much more targeted than before. There is less effort being spent on pleasing a large audience in favor of providing a unique experience to a more specific audience. Some of these new MMORPGs focus on PvP, others on PvE, and still others on a more crafting and chilling vibe - all of these are good for the future of MMORPGs!Clearly, players are not wishing for the same things as they were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. The success of The Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy XIV are largely due to their ability to offer relaxing, chill, wholesome content to their players. And the fact that a MMORPG that focuses on getting along with your neighbours and cultivating your garden is being developed is also very significant.

Is it due to the first generations of MMORPG players reaching a certain maturity in their life? Have we reached the stage of the gamer retirement home as certain MMORPGs are specifically designed for an aging community? Or, is it due to something else, something a bit more subtle and more profound?


My opinion​


This is my take on things: Not only has the gaming community aged (while several new generations of gamers have arrived), but also the world is changing... In recent times, and especially last year, we've seen these changes happening very fast. It is exhausting, and a lot of us need to constantly re-adjust in our real lives. For most of us gaming is a way of escaping the harsh realities of the world. Maybe in the past gamers were looking to break feelings such as boredom, lack of purpose, and loneliness, and for that exciting, adventurous, and challenging games were perfect to meet those needs of engagement that people may have been lacking in the real world. Now that life has become more challenging and the world is more threatening, we may not want to take refuge in games that are introducing us to more stress and adrenaline. More and more gamers just want to escape to beautiful worlds, interesting stories, or relax with calm activities such as crafting. More and more gamers are aspiring to find drama-free communities rather than competitive environments. And more and more gamers aspire to bond with others in games.

You can see that there is a common point between all MMORPGS I have mentioned above, and despite all of their differences, COMMUNITY is a big focus in all of them. All those titles want to bring back the experience of a striving, dynamic community and each of them addresses the needs of a different community. Community is exactly the main focus of Embers Adrift and the core of our game. We want YOU to use our game to make friends and wonderful memories together!

To me it feels like the gaming community is softening, in a beautiful way. I do not believe this is due to a part of the community ageing, but rather that the world is changing outside and we are changing within more than ever. This is part of a deeper change in humankind and it is beginning to show in the gaming community in a very clear way. I always found gaming, and especially MMORPGs, to be the best tool to observe human behaviours. We are living interesting times... The gaming community has expanded a lot in the last twenty years. What was once a very niche and very nerdy hobby has become something mainstream and accessible to almost everyone in all corners of the world. Therefore, obviously, as there are more players, there are many more personalities, more points of view, interests, cultures, needs, and desires. The gaming industry needs to adapt to the wants of an ever growing, ever diversifying, ever evolving community.

This was a very hippie discussion! But hey, that's only my opinion. What is your take guys? What do you think?
Is it a topic that interests you as much as it does me? This is the exact reason why I'm passionate about MMORPGS!
Click to expand...

I couldn't disagree more.

Has anyone been following the disaster that is the New World release? This game release is A PERFECT example of why catering to "a changing" player base is a HUGE mistake. Nevermind the bug filled, boring, unfinished game...it's the Company and the Community that are killing it.

1. The company has a splash page upon logging in that basically says, "Get in Lock-step, or get banned." that you MUST agree to before moving further. They never explain what they're expectations are in detail, but you get the idea from words like "Inclusion" and "Diverse". What this has led to is...OFFEND ANYONE ABOUT ANYTHING AND YOU GET MASS REPORT AUTO BANNED. People are AFRAID to ask questions in chat. They're afraid to group up. THEY ARE AFRAID TO PLAY A GAME THEY PAID FOR! The horror stories are all over the interwebs. The community and company have banned more players than the bots that are running around. If you found MMORPG'S to be a great way to observe human behavior (which I find highly amusing and horrible)...go play NW for an hour. You'll get your fill of "Observation". Go hit the forums up on Steam and Reddit. It's disgusting what the Company and Community are doing to players...and what could have been a somewhat successful game (bugs and all).

Proof: I've heard numbers like 15 Million copies sold. At peak play time on Steam...550k today. 1 Week ago...950k peak time players. Almost a 50% drop in the player base. People are RUNNING from this game faster than I've ever seen in any MMO release...and I've played EVERY major MMO release since EQ. Yeah...I'm an addict.

2. The older MMORPG community is in NO WAY softening. We are leaving. The old school MMO player WANTS trash talk in world chat, Your Mom and Chuck Norris jokes, and the occasional rant about some idiot in the real world. We don't care about your politics, your feelings, or your hair color. If we don't like what someone is saying, we don't REPORT them, BAN them, or ABUSE them. We'd argue like real MEN and WOMEN. Also...the MUTE and BLOCK button called. They want MMORPG communities to start using them again. They feel neglected.

3. Old School MMO gamers ARE ALL ABOUT COMMUNITY. We believe in FREE SPEECH and MUTE/BLOCK buttons which have been there from the beginning. We form groups based on similar beliefs, but we can't form those groups IF YOU BAN PEOPLE for stating opinions. I don't care if you're a [insert negative personality] in world chat...I don't HAVE to listen to you or play with you, but I won't report or ban that person. A game isn't a place to teach someone how to live, it's a place for everyone to forget life, take a break and have fun. My internet words mean NOTHING to the guy/gal from [insert far away place] and won't change them, but I can invite them to help kill a world boss.

New World and Amazon are perfect examples of what NOT to do in a new MMO. If that company and community are examples of what to expect in MMORPG's from now on...the genre will DIE. I hope this game doesn't make the same mistake. Make a game that's fun. Don't try to police the interwebs. I was going to drop the $50 and take my chances until I saw your post. The article is just flat garbage. I'll just put this game on my wait and see...

*old school MMO player rant off
 
Illmet said:
I couldn't disagree more.

Has anyone been following the disaster that is the New World release? This game release is A PERFECT example of why catering to "a changing" player base is a HUGE mistake. Nevermind the bug filled, boring, unfinished game...it's the Company and the Community that are killing it.

1. The company has a splash page upon logging in that basically says, "Get in Lock-step, or get banned." that you MUST agree to before moving further. They never explain what they're expectations are in detail, but you get the idea from words like "Inclusion" and "Diverse". What this has led to is...OFFEND ANYONE ABOUT ANYTHING AND YOU GET MASS REPORT AUTO BANNED. People are AFRAID to ask questions in chat. They're afraid to group up. THEY ARE AFRAID TO PLAY A GAME THEY PAID FOR! The horror stories are all over the interwebs. The community and company have banned more players than the bots that are running around. If you found MMORPG'S to be a great way to observe human behavior (which I find highly amusing and horrible)...go play NW for an hour. You'll get your fill of "Observation". Go hit the forums up on Steam and Reddit. It's disgusting what the Company and Community are doing to players...and what could have been a somewhat successful game (bugs and all).

Proof: I've heard numbers like 15 Million copies sold. At peak play time on Steam...550k today. 1 Week ago...950k peak time players. Almost a 50% drop in the player base. People are RUNNING from this game faster than I've ever seen in any MMO release...and I've played EVERY major MMO release since EQ. Yeah...I'm an addict.

2. The older MMORPG community is in NO WAY softening. We are leaving. The old school MMO player WANTS trash talk in world chat, Your Mom and Chuck Norris jokes, and the occasional rant about some idiot in the real world. We don't care about your politics, your feelings, or your hair color. If we don't like what someone is saying, we don't REPORT them, BAN them, or ABUSE them. We'd argue like real MEN and WOMEN. Also...the MUTE and BLOCK button called. They want MMORPG communities to start using them again. They feel neglected.

3. Old School MMO gamers ARE ALL ABOUT COMMUNITY. We believe in FREE SPEECH and MUTE/BLOCK buttons which have been there from the beginning. We form groups based on similar beliefs, but we can't form those groups IF YOU BAN PEOPLE for stating opinions. I don't care if you're a [insert negative personality] in world chat...I don't HAVE to listen to you or play with you, but I won't report or ban that person. A game isn't a place to teach someone how to live, it's a place for everyone to forget life, take a break and have fun. My internet words mean NOTHING to the guy/gal from [insert far away place] and won't change them, but I can invite them to help kill a world boss.

New World and Amazon are perfect examples of what NOT to do in a new MMO. If that company and community are examples of what to expect in MMORPG's from now on...the genre will DIE. I hope this game doesn't make the same mistake. Make a game that's fun. Don't try to police the interwebs. I was going to drop the $50 and take my chances until I saw your post. The article is just flat garbage. I'll just put this game on my wait and see...

*old school MMO player rant off
Click to expand...
I mean the game is currently top of Steams most active players list. Player base is still growing rapidly. They did something right. The “old school” Mmo player base is small and often unwilling to support any game that is not exactly like whatever one they played before. There is a clear reason new mmos do not try to market to them alone, there isn’t enough willing to spend money to keep a game alive.
 
Hey hey @Illmet ! Thank you for taking the time to share your views.

I will not answers all points of your discussion here, because I think we do have very different view point, and mindset, and my answer would become too much of my personal view point as player and not neutral enough for this serie of thread.
I'm playing & streaming & leading a company in New World, but my experience with the game and the community is visibly very different than yours.
I understand that the general "politically correctness" that is current in the world can be irritating at time, but this is an entierly other discussion.


But, yeah, to come on your example of the auto-bans, I don't think it's a great solution. Maybe a needed solution for a game of the scope of New World, but Embers Adrift is not aimed to have that big of a playerbase, and therefor, we will not need such harsh and automatic tools.
It is very much in our intentions to foster an organically nice, and welcoming community, but not through sneaky ways such as censorship, or overdone politically correctness.
There is different ways to foster a kind community and that doesn't requiere you to be manipulative. I believe that the first and best step is to show yourself as you wish others would be. So I hope we will inspire our community by showing human qualities such as humility, open mindness, kindness, compassion and fairness.
 
Ja es gibt sie wohl doch noch die guten Alten bzw ins alter gekommenen Old-School-MMO-Spieler wo der Spieler/Mensch noch im Vodergrund steht zum gemeinsamen Spielen in Gruppen usw,ich hoffe
hier wird es so^^und es werden die Leute nicht nach Ausrüstung bewertet oder du schon jeden Stein 2 mal umgedreht hast^^
 
Embers ist ein gruppenbasiertes PvE-Spiel, das für die massive Erkundung entwickelt wurde, während es sich entwickelt. Es wird immer Spieler geben, die auf das Endspiel oder die beste Beute zusteuern, ohne die Reise zu genießen. Ich denke, es wird von der Balance der Wirtschaft und den Charakterfortschrittspfaden abhängen, um zu sehen, wie das Spiel den Top-Spieler ansprechen wird.
:)
 
Ja das Erkunden und Endecken hört sich gut an und in einer Gruppe grosse Gegner zu besiegen ,ja das kennen wir aus anderen Spielen genug das es immer genug Spieler gibt die sich Topspieler nennen,
und noch nicht mal alles gesehen haben und schon nach dem neuen Endcontent schreien:oops: ich hoffe es klappt so wie Du es mit Balance der Wirtschaft und den Charakterfortschrittspfaden beschrieben hast.
 
Oh, yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed. I thought I was being paranoid. I don't feel as comfortable in the gamer community as I used to. I think it has to do with a generational change because most of those in my gaming environment have become grown men with children, and I've metaphorically taken their place. But today's school kids are far from what we used to be. They're toxic and mean now. That's why playing online games often becomes unpleasant. I recently sold all my inventory at https://skincashier.com and deleted CSGO because I've barely enjoyed the game in the last few months. I've mostly tolerated the toxic antics of school kids.
 
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For me all MMORPGs i played were too much gamed and exploited by some players of the community that have a big impact and influence and so spoiled me playing the game further.
Mortal online 2 hast very good restrictions that encourage to work together, create interdependencies about crafting etc. and the Game is 1 char per Account and many systems in this Game are build around the fact that you are you and only one and not 2 or 4 characters. So what do gamers they game the system, buy 4 games and multibox.
Game destroyed for me as it hast become a meta and gives so many advantages you dont want to "roleplay" the disadvantages.

Roleplay is another point. I was a Pen and Paper DM, once i had a second group, the others were rp'ers and XP was not their main interest, the Just inmersed and played their roles. They cared for what was immersive and credible in the world and for their characters.
The second group i called the excel warriors. All they did was based on numbers, logic, efficency and XP, progression was the most important.
It wasnt fun in the long run, when i played UO i realized lots of gamers are excel warriors.
Speedruns, multiboxing, justifying to use exploits, because you can.
Someone remember people asking others to play reasonable and dont jump from roofs because of immersion or dont name their Characters Klitkiller or Cervixhunter, btw the last is ingame.
Sure a lot has changed, but Excel warriors were allways the majority gaming Systems rather than playing games and even more rarely roleplaying in a roleplaying game.

They reduce roleplaying to numbers and having stats and skills that can be raised.

This hasn't changed, its what spoils me MMORPGs for 25+ years.

I hope to find some fellow players to roleplay, inmerse and explore the world with.
 
I play a lot of mmorpg's and over the years it's become more and more acceptable to create and use more and more addons to play the game for you. It's not enough for you to understand do not stand in the fire or that the Boss holding up his sword ang glowing red means he is about to one hit kill anyone in front of him ..now a alarm screams at you to get out of the fire and out of reach of the boss's incoming attacks.

Because the makers of the game want to challenge the player and not the players addons the fights fill will more and more things for the add ons to detect and yell and more and more shouts of jump! Duck, move to red tiles yadda yadda yadda.

It's a never-ending arms race. Let me off this thing.

At least a not insignificant amount of players do not want that. We want to play a great game ourselves and if the ground catches on fire we know not to stand in it and if we mess up and stand in it anyway..we want to fall.
 
I currently have about a dozen MMO's installed, generally either emulated one's from the 90's or early 2000's or one's like EA that are trying to recapture that.

We as players, or at least developers are telling us, that we want something that has been missing for some time from MMO's and they are trying to recreate it. I am not seeing this in these MMO's currently in development. This is with the added advantage of being able to still play classic versions of EQ, AC, Vanguard, UO, City of Heroes etc in 2022.

Where are these players? Why are games that are building on the essence of these classic MMO's not thriving when we are being told this is what we want, and the classic emulated servers are thriving? Maybe it is unfair to compare to those classics but when we keep telling ourselves or are being told this is what we want, it doesn't tally up with the interest in these games. Marketing maybe. These games get enough exposure through content creators though to see bigger populations.

I think what we are getting is a version of these classic MMO's that are simply less fun to play. The basis of them seems to embrace less convenience, less even than the classics, making them feel like a chore or a job. Current new/classic MMO's seem to be taking all of the chore, but none of the choice or fun from the classics.

As an example. Did the fact that Everquest give certain classes a toolbox to do more and achieve more or outright do stuff that only a group could do damage the game in anyway? So you want to go camp an item. You can go with friends, or you can play a class that with great understanding of the class and skill, gives you the option to do it in a duo or even solo. Judging by the popularity of P99 it doesn't appear so. Did UO giving one character enough skill points to be a self-sufficient crafter damage the game?

Classic MMO's were designed with the philosophy that embraced long term goals, often involving a long grind or path, but they also understood that there should be alternate paths and choices for the player to solve these challenges. It wasn't just, this is what we want to player to do, and this is the only path. For example, if you want to do X, you have to be in a group. It was, this is what we want you to do and here are a number of choices available to you to achieve these goals. We have even given you classes that, if you really want to do something solo or in a duo, you can. It's harder, but the choice and the challenge is there for you should you want to go that route. You only want to craft? OK go for it. It's harder and will take you a long time, but you can do it.

What we seem to be getting are MMO's framed as a classic experience, but with all of the nuance and choice removed from them. We see topics debating mechanics that were staple parts of classic MMO's but are told by an overtly rabid minority that you just want it to be a WoW clone. Leading to the question, did you play or do you remember the classic MMO experience?

With the advances in technology, we have not even seen an increase in the roleplaying side of MMORPG's outside of a couple of MMO's allowing you to build a camp in the world and do very limited activities with it.

I think the player base is to blame in part. We seem to be cherry picking what is classic or what is a WoW clone that fits in with a narrow view or without the hindsight of what classic MMO's brought to the table.

Classic MMO's encouraged community and working together but didn't force it on the players. It's for the players to decide how much they use the given tools and options available. If you have to Implement mechanics that force interaction or other gameplay types, you have lost the spirit of those games you are trying to emulate, and it is a massive step back for MMO's mechanically and removes player choice. It's like a restrictive straight jacket has been removed when I go from playing a classic inspired MMO to an actual classic MMO.
 
Illmet said:
I couldn't disagree more.

Has anyone been following the disaster that is the New World release? This game release is A PERFECT example of why catering to "a changing" player base is a HUGE mistake. Nevermind the bug filled, boring, unfinished game...it's the Company and the Community that are killing it.

1. The company has a splash page upon logging in that basically says, "Get in Lock-step, or get banned." that you MUST agree to before moving further. They never explain what they're expectations are in detail, but you get the idea from words like "Inclusion" and "Diverse". What this has led to is...OFFEND ANYONE ABOUT ANYTHING AND YOU GET MASS REPORT AUTO BANNED. People are AFRAID to ask questions in chat. They're afraid to group up. THEY ARE AFRAID TO PLAY A GAME THEY PAID FOR! The horror stories are all over the interwebs. The community and company have banned more players than the bots that are running around. If you found MMORPG'S to be a great way to observe human behavior (which I find highly amusing and horrible)...go play NW for an hour. You'll get your fill of "Observation". Go hit the forums up on Steam and Reddit. It's disgusting what the Company and Community are doing to players...and what could have been a somewhat successful game (bugs and all).

Proof: I've heard numbers like 15 Million copies sold. At peak play time on Steam...550k today. 1 Week ago...950k peak time players. Almost a 50% drop in the player base. People are RUNNING from this game faster than I've ever seen in any MMO release...and I've played EVERY major MMO release since EQ. Yeah...I'm an addict.

2. The older MMORPG community is in NO WAY softening. We are leaving. The old school MMO player WANTS trash talk in world chat, Your Mom and Chuck Norris jokes, and the occasional rant about some idiot in the real world. We don't care about your politics, your feelings, or your hair color. If we don't like what someone is saying, we don't REPORT them, BAN them, or ABUSE them. We'd argue like real MEN and WOMEN. Also...the MUTE and BLOCK button called. They want MMORPG communities to start using them again. They feel neglected.

3. Old School MMO gamers ARE ALL ABOUT COMMUNITY. We believe in FREE SPEECH and MUTE/BLOCK buttons which have been there from the beginning. We form groups based on similar beliefs, but we can't form those groups IF YOU BAN PEOPLE for stating opinions. I don't care if you're a [insert negative personality] in world chat...I don't HAVE to listen to you or play with you, but I won't report or ban that person. A game isn't a place to teach someone how to live, it's a place for everyone to forget life, take a break and have fun. My internet words mean NOTHING to the guy/gal from [insert far away place] and won't change them, but I can invite them to help kill a world boss.

New World and Amazon are perfect examples of what NOT to do in a new MMO. If that company and community are examples of what to expect in MMORPG's from now on...the genre will DIE. I hope this game doesn't make the same mistake. Make a game that's fun. Don't try to police the interwebs. I was going to drop the $50 and take my chances until I saw your post. The article is just flat garbage. I'll just put this game on my wait and see...

*old school MMO player rant off
Click to expand...
Good for you pal, someone with balls who has hit the nail on the head. For me the interweb has made people forget how to be social in real life that's why everything is going tit's up! I am old school and say things all the time which offend people because I am set in my ways and cba changing to fit into this none social online BS.
Keyboard warriors are like Hero's they know they cannot be wasted behind their safe little screens. 99% of people wouldn't have done/say half the things they do if they were stood next to you in a bar that's for sure. We need to get social and help rather than unsocial and scream from behind the screen.

Let's face it people died to give us an opinion right? However the people who want that opinion have forgotten the people who gave their lives so they can now have a freedom to say and do as they please.

Gaming imo is all about choices, take away people choices and then the fun stops. Something I want may not suit another person and game developers who understand this and allow for that will always make money and get support.

I choose who I play games with and those who do not like me will not group with me and that's fine too. MMO's have given me some of the most trusted people I now know today and have made lifelong friendship with people thanks to some nerd who had a dream.

In gaming the most powerful weapon you can wield is the IGNORE button or your subscription!
 
That "full article" seems 2 paragraphs justifying the industry wide shift 10+ YEARS AGO (through a narrow cabal of corpos) to the treadmilled themeparked microtransacted solofested random-lootboxed rat-raced free2play no-knowledge-required bot/multibox-infested pay2win insta-levelcap'd harpoon-the-whale soultraping endgame-dominant-grindfests called modern MMORPGs.

In classic MMOs, just knowing how to team, or how to navigate perilous terrain, or being willing to help random players out, or risking serious setbacks from character death, all while chatting, were more valuable than all the raid gear in the world. The end of the game was the process and other players, not the ever shifting goal posts of top loot + alt advancement, which only ever widen the gap between a hardcore hard-to-please ever-demanding ever-fragmenting sub-set of players and the new players that SHOULD BE the sustainable future of a worthwhile game.
 
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Illmet said:
I couldn't disagree more.

Has anyone been following the disaster that is the New World release? This game release is A PERFECT example of why catering to "a changing" player base is a HUGE mistake. Nevermind the bug filled, boring, unfinished game...it's the Company and the Community that are killing it.

1. The company has a splash page upon logging in that basically says, "Get in Lock-step, or get banned." that you MUST agree to before moving further. They never explain what they're expectations are in detail, but you get the idea from words like "Inclusion" and "Diverse". What this has led to is...OFFEND ANYONE ABOUT ANYTHING AND YOU GET MASS REPORT AUTO BANNED. People are AFRAID to ask questions in chat. They're afraid to group up. THEY ARE AFRAID TO PLAY A GAME THEY PAID FOR! The horror stories are all over the interwebs. The community and company have banned more players than the bots that are running around. If you found MMORPG'S to be a great way to observe human behavior (which I find highly amusing and horrible)...go play NW for an hour. You'll get your fill of "Observation". Go hit the forums up on Steam and Reddit. It's disgusting what the Company and Community are doing to players...and what could have been a somewhat successful game (bugs and all).

Proof: I've heard numbers like 15 Million copies sold. At peak play time on Steam...550k today. 1 Week ago...950k peak time players. Almost a 50% drop in the player base. People are RUNNING from this game faster than I've ever seen in any MMO release...and I've played EVERY major MMO release since EQ. Yeah...I'm an addict.

2. The older MMORPG community is in NO WAY softening. We are leaving. The old school MMO player WANTS trash talk in world chat, Your Mom and Chuck Norris jokes, and the occasional rant about some idiot in the real world. We don't care about your politics, your feelings, or your hair color. If we don't like what someone is saying, we don't REPORT them, BAN them, or ABUSE them. We'd argue like real MEN and WOMEN. Also...the MUTE and BLOCK button called. They want MMORPG communities to start using them again. They feel neglected.

3. Old School MMO gamers ARE ALL ABOUT COMMUNITY. We believe in FREE SPEECH and MUTE/BLOCK buttons which have been there from the beginning. We form groups based on similar beliefs, but we can't form those groups IF YOU BAN PEOPLE for stating opinions. I don't care if you're a [insert negative personality] in world chat...I don't HAVE to listen to you or play with you, but I won't report or ban that person. A game isn't a place to teach someone how to live, it's a place for everyone to forget life, take a break and have fun. My internet words mean NOTHING to the guy/gal from [insert far away place] and won't change them, but I can invite them to help kill a world boss.

New World and Amazon are perfect examples of what NOT to do in a new MMO. If that company and community are examples of what to expect in MMORPG's from now on...the genre will DIE. I hope this game doesn't make the same mistake. Make a game that's fun. Don't try to police the interwebs. I was going to drop the $50 and take my chances until I saw your post. The article is just flat garbage. I'll just put this game on my wait and see...

*old school MMO player rant off
Click to expand...
Wtf world are you living in? Immediately I get the idea that you want a place you can say things you know you can't or shouldn't say in the real world. Our world is changing you have to be aware of that. I know right from wrong and what i should and shouldn't say. I don't feel like you do. Just my impressions from your complaints. Be respectful of others have fun. Talk smack or joke yes. But know your audience or the world around you. Is it just me because I'll be happy if you don't play this game. Your seem like the person I ignore in games I play.
 
In my opinion MMO gaming is not a place for politics, religion, racist or sexist behavior. Chuck Norris jokes are awesome. Leave the rest for FOX or NEWSMAX and CNN. I came here to game and chill.
 
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