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Speed of progression

Valkon

New Member
The group I was exploring and advancing with had reached their 20s by Sunday of the 2nd weekend. Undone appeared in chat and said something along the lines of "wtf 20 already, should I reduce xp?". As a group we did not feel that we were leveling too fast when progressing via on-level mobs. I wound up conversing with Undone in a private chat. I recommended that the level range for "green" mobs be reduced as it seemed that we feasted on Meadowlands even though they were many levels below us -- mainly for the flux, not so much for the exp mind you, the exp was a bonus. I don't know if it was the lack of quills or what, but we didn't rest between kills, we just non-stop mass slaughtered them. By comparison, it was necessary to rest up after killing white/yellow mobs and only one at a time.

After some philisophical and design back and forth, I restated that I thought the issue was with green mobs (the bunnies specifically). I also passed along the group's feeeling that on-level progression felt good and gave an impression of achievment whereas the low greens did not. Undone thanked me for my feedback and we left it at that. Later, Undone sent me a tell that he'd reviewed the code and he may have discovered an issue with the exp calcs for green mobs and thanked me again.

So 1) next patch we may see progression slowed if you are relying on very low green mobs to advance and 2) Undone works too hard and needs a raise :D.

-- Knoon, aka Boon, Woon, Soon, Valkon
 

Aetrion

Active Member
I have mixed feelings about slower progression. On the one hand, I love games where you can just whittle away at building your perfect character, spaceship, whatever for a really long time, and there are always more incremental improvements to be made. On the other hand, progress needs to be cumulative, and often in MMORPGs you wind up having to replace equipment as you get to a higher level, so that puts pressure on the player to not waste too much time gathering equipment at low level that will just get tossed out anyways. Reaching max level is usually the point in most MMORPGs where you can start working toward things you won't replace and that's the point where slow progression starts being ok.
 

Nethu

New Member
For this it would be very cool when you have different points(lvlcap) on your journey to max Level (20/30/40 or sth.)
where you can´t pass when you didn´t craft or farm a particular set from a dungeon that is needed as a basetemplate for endgame gear.
Every set maybe another ressistance or something like that, and also for that lvlrange good stats so you can actually use it in between.
This way it´s not complete wasted and you also bind the playerbase on the lvlranges.
For the people that doenst like dungeon there would also be a crafting solution to get the set but it should be soulbound to the crafter
so it doesnt get traded for powerleveling, the needed materials should be also collected only by the person.
Another cool thing could be when you wear this armor again later , you get back to that lvl 20 / 30 / 40 and you can help out your friends
this way (mentoring system / or just timemachine (maybe you want to challenge an old boss again).
For sure that wouldn´t stop completley the rush of some ppl to get as fast as possible to max level but still slow down that progression and also
when they rushed through they still have the chance to later on experience the lvlranges in a slower pace when they switch to that mentorgear
and help out friends or just do some challenges.
Don´t know if this ideas fit into the big picture as I´m pretty new to the Game but after reading the topic that were just some thoughts that wanted out
of my head.

So far big fan of your game :) keep up that good work .
 
People who are very familiar with game come release will always find the most efficient routes to level. Levelling speed and roadblocks always impact new players and players with less time by far the most.
 

Kittik

Well-Known Member
For this it would be very cool when you have different points(lvlcap) on your journey to max Level (20/30/40 or sth.)
where you can´t pass when you didn´t craft or farm a particular set from a dungeon that is needed as a basetemplate for endgame gear.
Every set maybe another ressistance or something like that, and also for that lvlrange good stats so you can actually use it in between.
This way it´s not complete wasted and you also bind the playerbase on the lvlranges.
I always thought this would be a good way to get people to slow down their leveling, at least on their first toon. Making it so you can't even damage a mob at level 20 if you're level 20 who didn't do a certain quest, or doesn't have the gear required to inflict damage in these new mobs. It would be neat to see how something like this could play out.
 

Blyte Plays

Well-Known Member
Personally, I dont think any gear set or quest should be requisite for level advancement. I think quests should have loot rewards of their own. I think that armor sets are cool to get, but everyone shouldn't need a set of magic underoos to advance a character in level. There should be many viable roads in your journey to 50, and possible for two level 50s to have had totally different journeys there.

I enjoy the journey, and figuring out efficient methods for group/solo play. I enjoy getting loot along the way and replacing the loot for upgrades, all along the way, and many times over at max level.

I think the 1-20 experience was right. We should have blitzed there. We were doing a TON of efficient group play, and putting in the work. 21-25 slowed a bit, for sure. 26-31, was much slower yet, having done a lot of it solo play and trying to PL some replacement party members on grey's and greens.

One thing that slowed us, other than player attrician, was harvesting hell levels. 9-10, 18-20, and 27-30 have all been rough, and played havoc on folks willingness to group. With our small player base, if an essential role is unwilling to grouo, we are hosed.

I am really hoping the 40-50 experience will be very meaningful, with some very powerful loot and challenging monsters.

I am fearfully hopeful for the upper level experience in the game. I fear that too long, have we concerned ourselves with "thieves blade drop rates", and as a result, we wont have a compelling end game. (Cant believe I am talking about this, but I feel it is stupid to have such a powerful item, which a player can ride for many levels, drop off a trivial monster.) The blade needs to be moved, to an appropriate challenge monster.

I am nearly equally fearful, for the ember "magic" system. I dont want the end game to be cluttered with a bunch of (insert class)-mage hybrids. I know it's being touted as an achievement that you need to work to get to, but on a long enough time line, many many people will get there, and I just hope that it is a deep system that you pick and choose to craft your access to it. If everyone is running around doing the exact same magic, its gonna feel cheap.

I guess I'm getting off topic here..
 
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KnightFalz

Active Member
For this it would be very cool when you have different points(lvlcap) on your journey to max Level (20/30/40 or sth.)
where you can´t pass when you didn´t craft or farm a particular set from a dungeon that is needed as a basetemplate for endgame gear.
Every set maybe another ressistance or something like that, and also for that lvlrange good stats so you can actually use it in between.
This way it´s not complete wasted and you also bind the playerbase on the lvlranges.
For the people that doenst like dungeon there would also be a crafting solution to get the set but it should be soulbound to the crafter
so it doesnt get traded for powerleveling, the needed materials should be also collected only by the person.
Another cool thing could be when you wear this armor again later , you get back to that lvl 20 / 30 / 40 and you can help out your friends
this way (mentoring system / or just timemachine (maybe you want to challenge an old boss again).
For sure that wouldn´t stop completley the rush of some ppl to get as fast as possible to max level but still slow down that progression and also
when they rushed through they still have the chance to later on experience the lvlranges in a slower pace when they switch to that mentorgear
and help out friends or just do some challenges.
Don´t know if this ideas fit into the big picture as I´m pretty new to the Game but after reading the topic that were just some thoughts that wanted out
of my head.

So far big fan of your game :) keep up that good work .

That is a "gamey" artificial constraint to progression I'd rather not be burdened with. I don't play games to be told what I must do by them and when.
 
Maybe offer some special quests at level 20, 30 etc but not make them tied to level progress. Maybe a nice class based reward for them so it's worth it for players to stop to do them but it's not required.
 

Randy Magnum

Active Member
I think items like the thieves blade, and outlook staff etc, are one of the best things in this game. That you can get a great item with a little luck and perseverance without needing a group. I think the game swung too far catering to groups and is starting to look like a themepark . Grouping is Easymode, xp grind is so far ahead of solo (5-10x more) and i expect that. But can a group die to a white or blue con mob (not bad pulls, but 1 mob)? Now crafting has catered to groups too. You used to have to spend time scouring the outskirts of a zone gathering mats. You had to dedicate time specifically for gathering. Well, if you don't know, now all you have to do is head to a group area and the path will be covered in large respawning nodes, its basically just a byproduct of grinding mobs in a group. Like getting a reagent. Whats the achievement in that? The six seconds it took to click next to you as you grind xp? In this game (tab target, non raiding, limited strats) I get the feeling of achievement through time invested, gathering routes, crafting, not grinding xp. Everyone has to grind xp so when the others are now a byproduct of grinding xp, it belittles the effort and achievement for me. With little achievement, I am left with a running simulator. Its probably more of a problem for me because I have experienced the game in such a different state that newer people wouldn't be effected. I thought of crafting as character development. You can still waste your time and run around a zone solo gathering 1 or 2 items per node spaced far apart, or you can go to a group area and get all the mats you need in a quarter of the time. Now it feels like a waste of time to solo gather. I liked having a solo achievement. Some do, some don't.
 

KnightFalz

Active Member
I think items like the thieves blade, and outlook staff etc, are one of the best things in this game. That you can get a great item with a little luck and perseverance without needing a group. I think the game swung too far catering to groups and is starting to look like a themepark . Grouping is Easymode, xp grind is so far ahead of solo (5-10x more) and i expect that. But can a group die to a white or blue con mob (not bad pulls, but 1 mob)? Now crafting has catered to groups too. You used to have to spend time scouring the outskirts of a zone gathering mats. You had to dedicate time specifically for gathering. Well, if you don't know, now all you have to do is head to a group area and the path will be covered in large respawning nodes, its basically just a byproduct of grinding mobs in a group. Like getting a reagent. Whats the achievement in that? The six seconds it took to click next to you as you grind xp? In this game (tab target, non raiding, limited strats) I get the feeling of achievement through time invested, gathering routes, crafting, not grinding xp. Everyone has to grind xp so when the others are now a byproduct of grinding xp, it belittles the effort and achievement for me. With little achievement, I am left with a running simulator. Its probably more of a problem for me because I have experienced the game in such a different state that newer people wouldn't be effected. I thought of crafting as character development. You can still waste your time and run around a zone solo gathering 1 or 2 items per node spaced far apart, or you can go to a group area and get all the mats you need in a quarter of the time. Now it feels like a waste of time to solo gather. I liked having a solo achievement. Some do, some don't.
Modern theme parks indulge solo play such that one can clear most to all overland content alone. EA does not, making it quite different from them. The game is intended for group play, so it makes sense that is more rewarded than solo play. If you want the benefits of group play you must group. If you'd rather not group, then you must accept the constraints of solitude.
 

AdricLives

Administrator
Stormhaven Studios
Now it feels like a waste of time to solo gather.

"Dense" nodes focusing on group areas was already reverted and will be worked into a chance in all node locations. We want to make sure grouping and group adventuring is properly encouraged, but harvesting/crafting has always been a downtime activity and will continue to be more solo-friendly in that regard.
That you can get a great item with a little luck and perseverance without needing a group

There will continue to be items like this, but its a very delicate balance.

Modern theme parks indulge solo play such that one can clear most to all overland content alone. EA does not, making it quite different from them. The game is intended for group play, so it makes sense that is more rewarded than solo play. If you want the benefits of group play you must group. If you'd rather not group, then you must accept the constraints of solitude.

I'm probably a broken record on this, but everything is a balance. There won't always be a group for players to join either during off-hours or if friends are taking a break. We need to make sure there are meaningful progression paths for players to follow while they are LFG, but make sure that grouping is still the most efficient path, just not the ONLY path.
 

KnightFalz

Active Member
I'm probably a broken record on this, but everything is a balance. There won't always be a group for players to join either during off-hours or if friends are taking a break. We need to make sure there are meaningful progression paths for players to follow while they are LFG, but make sure that grouping is still the most efficient path, just not the ONLY path.
Did I say grouping was the ONLY path? I said choosing not to comes with a cost, the reduced efficiency you specify. Randy spoke of it in detail and I described it as a constraint of solitude, which by design it is. As you say, you make sure it is so.
 

Blyte Plays

Well-Known Member
I feel it makes sense that clusters of dense harvesting would be contested by strong humanoids, or perhaps even unintelligent creatures, which the nodes draw for some strange reason. At least in the case of humanoids having a mining operation, you should need a group to bust into it, or some crafty solo strat. (Like Berry creating a diversion, so he can later run back to harvest nodes, before the guards manage to return to their posts.)

It's also fitting that a group area should offer more to harvest. I think my group has 5 prospectors? Even with the density, we would be making a ton more ore solo harvesting and not taking turns in the group area.

I think anything rewarding player cooperation is not only right, but it makes sense. "Team work makes the dream work"... you should have to work longer and craftier if you are doing something alone, imagine one man building a home, vs a team of people. The solo person will get there eventually and have quite a boast for a accomplishment when it's over, but the team of home builders, will have already finished a neighborhood, by the time he gets there.

I think there should of course be chances for dense nodes to be found uncontested, but in abundance they should be fiercely guarded.
 
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Blyte Plays

Well-Known Member
I dont feel grouping is "easy mode".

I've had high stakes, high difficulty group and solo situations.

Grouping I would consider more work in some ways. We all must effectively communicate and cooperate. We all must tolerate. Finally, we all must agree what we will do.

A soloist has it all on their terms. That aspect of solo play is "easy mode".