Reducing barriers to group play

[Skeezix]

Hello!

Looking for suggestions to incentivize group play. My 2 coppers:

1) Implement a mentoring system.
2) Eliminate no XP for red kills. Instead, cap it.
3) Have 'high value' nodes/chests well guarded.

Any other suggestions?
Cheers,
Skeezix

 

[Kittik]

I think with every member in your group you get +1% bonus exp.

Red kills were supposed to still give exp, greatly diminished, so as to why it wasn't giving exp this weekend is likely a bug or an unreported change.

 

[AdricLives]

2) Eliminate no XP for red kills. Instead, cap it.

As Kittik mentioned this is capped, fairly harshly atm though. Will see if I can reproduce any bugs here.

3) Have 'high value' nodes/chests well guarded.

Yea we are tuning how chests work right now and still a bit of a WIP. Keys are being added and there will be a greater difference between supply chests which are nice resupplies of consumables/ammo/reagents and maybe some minor loot and locked chests which have guaranteed good rewards. Locked chests would no longer be random in open areas, but specifically in areas that need a group and require a key from something that also requires a group, and we can keep the supply chests in areas where players can just stumble upon them randomly.

 

[Undone]

xp for reds was broken. is now fixed in the latest update.

 

[Skeezix]

I thought the mentoring idea might have gained some traction. It would greatly increase the level range for group play.

Other items that made setting up a groups inconvenient:
- imagine being in north Dryfoot and having to run to the exiles camp in Meadowlands. Possible solutions 1) burn some ember to transport closer. 2) once per day teleport ability,
- let us see player levels. It's minor but every bits helps.

Currently there are very few 'popular' areas where people like to group. Central Veins, exiles in NNH and exiles in Meadowlands. What makes those areas more popular? For NNH and CV: good size area, plenty of mobs, 2 ups, 3 ups, loot drops?, coin drops and provides a challenge to group play. All this makes a satisfying experience.

Points to ponder for future content.
Cheers!
Skeezix

 

[Rev]

2) Eliminate no XP for red kills. Instead, cap it.

I know they want to prevent power-levelling being a thing so that is why you get very little if they red to you. Not sure why how the mob cons to each player in a group is what is looked at instead of just setting a level range for groups and as long as you are all within x number of levels, you all get xp. Pretty sure that is how most others do it. Of course, knowing each others levels would have to be a thing then. Sure, you could say that would limit grouping, but, if I know most the group is 6-7 levels above me and are going to be fighting what will be red cons to me most the time, I am going to look elsewhere for a group anyway since what xp I will get will be minimal. If it is just set so as long as everyone is within 5 or 6 levels of each other you all get xp, it won't matter what each person cons to the mobs. Seems like a lot less having to go on in the background as well since you won't have to calculate each group members level compared to every mob that is fought.

I thought the mentoring idea might have gained some traction. It would greatly increase the level range for group play.

MMOs have always run into the issue of what happens later on when most are high level and the new players are left alone in empty zones. Mentoring would be a nice addition for that, but very few have pulled it off successfully and it would require a whole lot of backend work to implement an entirely new system. Maybe it is something they will look to do down the road once the game is launched? I wish there was some way to draw higher players back to lower content without having to artificially lower them down to the other person's level and giving them some incentive to want to do it, but I don't think anyone has come up with a great solution for that yet.

Currently there are very few 'popular' areas where people like to group. Central Veins, exiles in NNH and exiles in Meadowlands. What makes those areas more popular? For NNH and CV: good size area, plenty of mobs, 2 ups, 3 ups, loot drops?, coin drops and provides a challenge to group play. All this makes a satisfying experience

My guess is A) most the "structured" group content so far centered around the smugglers and exiles and B) They drop money and loot where all you get from fighting a ^^^ spider is vendor loot and a possible warden reagent. The risk vs reward is better if fighting human mobs now so that is where you will find most of the groups.


Personally, I find the current LFG tool confusing at best. I still don't know if I understand it or not.

 

[PapaDreadHead]

just my honest opinion about Grouping atm from a MMORPG/Survival game junkie boomer. I'm going to try my best to stay on the Grouping topic as my mind spins in a million directions as it gets going, i'm going to apologize right now if I get off track or seem a lil RAWR/aggressive in my posts but enjoy all my typos/spelling errors LoL here we goooooo .

I have only played EA for 2 weekends now and I can say there is no Reason to ever group up atm sadly. if you get a full 6stack group you get a 5%EXP buff which does NOT make up for the loss of EXP you end up sharing threw out the group. I tested this a lot LoL. since a mobs EXP is split evenly among the player in the group and if a mob is Conned RED to you then you are limited by the Mobs your group can try and kill (as on weekend march 11th-13th Reds give 0 EXP still). When I was grouped up Full group or less, NEVER EVER did i get over 3%EXP per kill or over. EXP per mob kill on average in a group full party or with at least 1 person was 1-2%EXP per mob kill. Sadly a group then is just holding me back from Leveling.. yah the Argument can be made well you kill quicker in a group vs solo. that is true BUT if every Solo kill gives me 2-4% and my down time is actually less because i'm not having to wait on other people to be full STA/HP and lets say your in a full group and everyone is Lv5 and your group kills a Lv7x2^
(Lv7 mob with 2Chevs or what ever its called sry) the EXP is divided evenly and everyone gets 2%EXP... the time it took to kill that mob VS as being Solo I could of killed 3mobs no ^chev and got at the least 2%exp from each = 6%EXP or high end say 9%EXP. Fact is and or point i'm making if your Trying to grind Lvs just play Solo and for a game that is promoting its self as a "old school community MMORPG" this makes me really sad. TBH I even quit playing on both weekends because of how discouraging it was to me.---- Grouping should never feel like it is holding you back in any aspect -----

Mob Drops rare items.... yup them are cool, but not as cool as being Maxed Level... not going to spend 2hrs,5hrs,10hrs,16hrs (poop sock EQ1 coined terms) on a item that is Lv5,10,15,ect,ect,ect when you will out Level that item, take away item Lv Req, this is a PvE game there is no need or worries about Twinks or OP Lowbies. there is a more of a WOW OMG factor when you would see a Lv3 person all decked out, like you knew that person had a higher Lv toon, they spent Hrs farming them items and or farming gold/plat to buy that said item to give to there alt toon.

Money/Economy..... as said above yup he is right everyone goes for them Exile NPC because of Coin and Loot drop, AGAIN it's not worth if your in a group killing them with any thing more than 2peeps the Coin is split (deeeerp) which makes sense but again the time it takes you your group to burn down said mob for the coin is not worth the time it takes you to burn a mob by your self. and get allllll the loot and coin and exp, ill be honest I do not know what role Money is to play in to the fundamental part of the game. K i need Gold for a bank slots k what else ??? yup i see a vendor with stuff that i can buy, k 99% of that stuff i can craft or the awesome community the game has peeps craft it for me ( i got all 3 toons, Forester,Provisioner,Miner,Skinner,Armorsmith,Weaponsmith ) if i need something ill go get it and at the very least i can trade said items for what i need or what i need crafted for. I think the only thing i noticed that i needed to buy from the merch that you COULD NOT craft was Water & Glass bottle/jar/vial, i might be wrong maybe some how we can/ are able to gather water and or make glass bottle/jar/vials, if not that would be cool to see in the future. 99% of all MMORPGS now days just try to find a way to make players have a Gold Sink, which i really dont understand.

Mentoring system / PL (Power Leveling)/ OOG (out of group)/ Boxing (1person running multi game clients on 1 or multi PC)

Sooooo this one is kind rough LoLOL, yup not a lot of games have a Mentoring system and if they do it is not that good but at least it is there if i want to take my Lv60 toon to my lv20 friends and group up no harm no foul. I cant speak for the Majority for players but i can speak for my self of why im not 100% in love with mentoring. 1 like most MMORPG players im a AltOHolic..... so i got 20 toons who have all been to the same x,y,z zones 20 times and now i'm pretty much forced back to these zones if i want to play/group up help my friend get out of this zone.... because the only reason your in this zone is to help your friend get to a Higher Lv to catch up to you LoL. I really think ESO did an amazing job here with the 1 Tamerial World/Patch, where everyone at any Lv can group up any where, the Mobs some how scaled with you personally, i have no clue how they do it but that is a very awesome feature, a Lv20 with a Lv60 785CP can both in the same group killing a Mob, the Lv20 does not get 1 shot the Lv60 has to button mash a little bit, they both get EXP and Loot, with that being said any thing more than a group of 2 players EXP is whacked LoL soooo yahh so group grinds there.

PL why not let people PL ???? the only issue with PL is on the Devs not the Players, Devs know that players can chew threw content quicker than they can create it, that is the issue. IMHO there is nothing wrong with PL but with that being said a game needs and should have things in place to mitigate the end result of PL, sayyyyyyy like Min/Maxing Gear and or Rep Grind. Say you remove all Lv Req from gear and I PL my Warlord from Lv1 to 60 using some awesome gear i made and some sweet rare loot drops i found on my MAIN TOON Lv60 Jug. there should me items in the game that are BiS (Best in Slot) that are Warlord only that are BoP (Bind on Pickup) or something to that nature Hence you Hit lv60 by a PL toon and now you gota go do the Gear grind thing.

OOG, most of us remember the old days with OOG Druids/Clerics/Shammy in EQ1 buffing the crap out of our group so we could grind faster which was awesome, the Tunnel in common lands need i say more LoL 8P. I dont think there is or should be a issue with a OOG High Lv toon handing down buffs to said group. I think some of the best moments where us group of lowbies were camping a dungeon and some rando High Lv god would run by give everyone Thorns or Clarity we would all lose our crap so excited WAAAAGH LoL !!! Ok peeps we got 15mins PULL QUICKER !!!! LoL

Boxing..... Lets be honest Boxing only started because the game was dying out. Boxing started on EQ1 because the current content was/is hard very grindy at high Lvs and you needed Specific roles --Enchanter/Bard/Tank.... and Guess what all your Bards, Encht & Tanks are now playing WoW LoLOL and with that being said what game is on Xpac num 27 or 28 atm ?!??! Frickin EQ1 LoLOL. I could list 20-30 MMORPGs that have came and gone (and ive played them all) since the start of MMORPGs, 99% of them are flat out Dead or on life support orrrrrr the cool new thing now is Private server, DAoC has a private server, UO has a private server, SWG has a private server, Rift, AC, Anarchy online, Shadowbane,ect,ect,ect,ect,ect..... 1 last thing, gota give it back to EQ1 they started the whole TPL/TrueBox yah i know SoE sold EQ IP to Daybreak.... but ya gota think how funny that is that Daybreak came up with the idea of TPL/TrueBox server and its HUGE now, when they drop them servers you can barely get in them on the first week or 2 they are so packed.... funnier yet even WoW got in on them for a easy Cash grab because WoWLive is Garbo and Subs are in the toilet.

The only game I can think of that makes you go back to Lowbie zones is NW ( New World ) atm, and it was purely a crafting thing, you needed so many iron to turn in to steel then so many steel fused in toooooo what ever the heck it was called i forgot, Now IMHO the crafting system in NW was complete dumpster, there was nothing Unique or catchy about it...... cool i crafted 200K Iron swords to get my Weaponsmith from Lv1-200 or what ever it was LoLOLOL.... AGS (amazon gaming studios) has 500mill a yr to blow on games and that is the best crafting system we got.... on point, did i like having to go back to Lowbie zones to get said Matts hell no... what they should of done was just put all the matts all over the world you want to see a Lv60 in a Lv1-5 zone well put Req Crafting matts in a Lowbie zone.... dont make me bonk 10k Iron for 1k Steel, its just silly imho, it's all in how you look at it i guess, but I just see it as a lack of creativity and laziness on there side.

LFG Tool, Yes i too was a little Confused about the LFG tool but after doinking with it so much/using it i got. Yes we should be able to see peoples Levels as well..... this is not a PvP Sandbox survival game, there is no reason to not show peoples Levels.... no one is harmful in the game LoL

Having to run 40mins to join a group..... this is another tough one soooooooo right now is hard if the Highest EA pop has ever been is say 48peeps, break it down max group in game would be 8 groups full aye, 6x8=48 so yah Low pop on a game is rough, do I think there should be some type of Fast Travel system in game YES, NW(New World) had to add there fast travel system in game even thought it was added very very late like 6months before Launch they still added it, why ? because if i am lv40 grinding in a lv40 Zone and i had to run 60+mins away to go bang on Iron or flip a keep flag then to RUN BACK 60+mins to go back farming is just Gross, people dont like that, NW still dont have mount in the game even LoLOLOL!!!!!! One thing EA could do to really make a mix of toon Lvs in a Zone is have say said zone South Newhaven, have that zone be from Lv1-50..... Start at the bottom of the map South-Lv1-15, Mid-South15-25, Mid25-35, Mid-North35-45, North45-50, and do that to all the zones, that way the Camps dont get so clogged up as well, it might create dialogue/trading between said Lowbie and High Lv person... I havent traveled all over but i think a zone with Meadows on the scale of how big it is you could def do something like that. I know Unity engine is not really meant for MMORPGs so idk what kind of Spaghetti issues that could or would be caused on that, but I know from my time playing CF (CrowFall) no zone would perform well once 100-150 peeps were in the zone, it was a unstable lagest and your FPS would hard lock at 10... now CF was a Pure PvP sandbox game..... when i say hard lock 10FPS im not even talking combat...... I straight up mean when you pushed 100-150 in 1 zone sporadically all over the place in them zones they would crap the bed. that is Half the reason why CF was DOA ( dead on arrival). ok ok back on point. we NEED Mounts as well as Fast Travel (Teleport system) this is not a want, this is a Necessity in a MMORPG for 2022.... I really hate to go backt o EQ1 again BUTTTTTTT since EA is all "Community" driven, Look at EQ1, Wizzards & Druids.... they could and would TP you where you needed to go, once the Xpac SoL/PoP came in EQ1 a Self Teleport system was brought in and it Killed off them classes pretty much IT ALSO killed off any interaction / dialogue made between said players..... if you look back you will see that this was the start of the decline from EQ1 they were shooting them selfs in the foot and not even realizing by taking away interaction from the community at the time, EQ2 & WoW dropped in 2004 (if i remember correctly like 1-2weeks apart from eachother) and by then EQ1 had leaked so many people WoW was gobbling them up..... BACK ON TOPIC !!!!! as the game grows so will the population BUT that still does not solve traveling around the world HENCE, Mounts, Hearthstone/Bind/Recall and Player to Player Teleporting is the way to go imo... not one or the other it NEEDS to be all 3 options, let me Bind to a Fire in Meadows, ride my Horse mount to SNewHaven, then get a Player Teleport to Dryfoot, and when im done for the Night ill Recall to my cozy fire in the Meadows 8) <3... also need more NPC populated/camping areas

How Chests work atm ---- OoOoOo man o man sooo yahh after my 2nd day of playing i learned that Chests are not locked LoL EZ PEASY, yup i was running around all the Exile camps grouping up all the mobs draggin them off, keeping them on a nice leash till i had them strung out pretty far then i would bolt back to the Chest, Loot and Scoot...... Yes keys are 1000% Needed.... maybe even Fragmented Key soooooooo say you need 3 parts of the Key then once all 3 parts are gathered from said mob you combine to make the Key then blambo you get said chest ?!?! idk but aye Chests need keys for sure.

Think this rant/ramble went on long enough, think i touched on everything i seen in this post as well my in game opinion over the last 2 weekends, take it or leave it, it is what it is, just know it all comes from a place of passion for the MMORPG space, Community being the central focus of the game.

 

[Kittik]

just my honest opinion about Grouping atm from a MMORPG/Survival game junkie boomer. I'm going to try my best to stay on the Grouping topic as my mind spins in a million directions as it gets going, i'm going to apologize right now if I get off track or seem a lil RAWR/aggressive in my posts but enjoy all my typos/spelling errors LoL here we goooooo .

IMO, everything you said is extremely valid. I would reiterate every point you had, but I'm not going to because that was a lot of points.

I could care less if they ignore boxing and PL'ing, nor do I mind if they want to combat those issues. What might unfortunately happen is, in their attempts to combat those, they are making the game less fun for the rest of us.

 

[jamie dupre]

need a list of the gear you can get ( stuck On table at camp ember ) ie belt with 8 stamina
shirt 16 ac and were to go grind (exile camp) (wolf den)
so players can make group and go get the gear

show them the stuff is out there
make treasure maps for the gear (poster at ember camp) like the wolf den or exile camp hard to get to definitely need a group (must grind for hours)

entice them (blast it across the world) big noise so they can hear it across the world or in chat and like 8 lines long
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Fred pick up got gloves
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woot woot woot woot woot
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when they pick up the item 1% drop rate

when in social add tab with more info (grind for gear ,location exile camp)

 

[Pelirow]

Interesting discussion points all around.

I personally prefer a mentoring system over making everyone the same level in a zone like ESO does. you can give the high level player some benefit by having them gain some modest exp to their actual level if not capped, but otherwise mentoring should be desired in the sense that capped players would like to have fun in groups at fun content. Level sync in FF XI worked pretty well but I think that's beyond Embers in design intent. Papa's point about alts loses water in Embers because we are only allowed to have 2 alts.

As a tank, I'm seeing roughly equal if not slightly less exp when soloing compared to group exp. It's certainly more boring. Jugg and the striker classes may presumably be able to solo better due to their damage output. I do agree that group exp should be the most desired method and sometimes I only get 1% exp when fighting 2^ mobs. Perhaps make a flat benefit exp gain as long as people are fighting in level range and based on #^? A group of at least 3 people should be guaranteed to get at least 2-3% each from white-yellow 2^, 3-4% from orange-red 2^ and and +1% if 3^. It's a little awkward doing "flat rate exp" but I think this alleviates the frustration, especially when exp starts getting a little goofy when one person starts getting a tad higher level than the mobs. This may make people level too fast at the same time though, so there's a tension there in not wanting people to chew through content too fast. I'm not sure an extra 1-2% per mob would make a group clear out an area significantly faster as there will still be downtime and this proposal actually encourages going after 3^s which in my experience we usually ignored.

Also agreed Red mobs should give exp, and if possible, give a great amount of exp if you are within 2-3 levels of said mob. This way players are rewarded for fighting the literal hardest mobs at their level while preventing PLing, which seems to be something Undone wants to prevent. Using my example above red 1^ gives 3% guaranteed, 2^ gives 4%, and 3^ gives 5%. "Within level range" is something for the devs to figure but I'm assuming 3 levels below mob at most to earn the exp.

I'm ambivalent about PLing, but I do understand the big negative is that PLing means there's less people actually grouping and doing at-level content. In that sense and given how Embers is niche among niche mmos, it makes sense to slow down levelling speed as much as reasonably possible to keep zones saturated.

No mounts, no fast travel! Getting somewhere should be part of the gameplay experience. I heard some mention of very limited fast travel allowed strictly for grouping purposes at ember rings and using up some ember essence. I think I'm okay with that if after launch we see that people are truly not having fun and losing subs solely because they feel their limited time is spend travelling instead of grouping. Part of player choice is "where do I want to go and how much time do I have?" in a game like this though, so the more fast travel you have the more the world shrinks. I would very much compromise on this point if it is for a high level player willing to help out a lower level group and mentor down; mentor down and having someone cross 4 zones to help the lowbies is counterproductive to the intent of mentoring. Let the mentor warp to lowbie group without penalty, but they do have to trek back to high level area.

 

[Undone]

I do agree that group exp should be the most desired method and sometimes I only get 1% exp when fighting 2^ mobs. Perhaps make a flat benefit exp gain as long as people are fighting in level range and based on #^? A group of at least 3 people should be guaranteed to get at least 2-3% each from white-yellow 2^, 3-4% from orange-red 2^ and and +1% if 3^. It's a little awkward doing "flat rate exp" but I think this alleviates the frustration, especially when exp starts getting a little goofy when one person starts getting a tad higher level than the mobs. This may make people level too fast at the same time though, so there's a tension there in not wanting people to chew through content too fast. I'm not sure an extra 1-2% per mob would make a group clear out an area significantly faster as there will still be downtime and this proposal actually encourages going after 3^s which in my experience we usually ignored.

Not every kill is going to give you a full percentage for the entire game; what you are getting now is simply an artifact of being relatively low level. You have yet to hit the steep part of the leveling curve. If adjustments need to be made for groups that is something we can discuss - but we won't be giving folks a flat percentage for their kills.

Also agreed Red mobs should give exp, and if possible, give a great amount of exp if you are within 2-3 levels of said mob. This way players are rewarded for fighting the literal hardest mobs at their level while preventing PLing, which seems to be something Undone wants to prevent. Using my example above red 1^ gives 3% guaranteed, 2^ gives 4%, and 3^ gives 5%. "Within level range" is something for the devs to figure but I'm assuming 3 levels below mob at most to earn the exp.

If an npc is red that means it is already 5+ levels above you. It does give experience, but at a greatly reduced rate. If red's gave everyone full experience then yes of course grouping would be the way to go - everyone would be killing reds and content designed for your level would be completely bypassed. If we want to expand the range of when something turns red we can have that discussion.

 

[Rev]

I think some of the best moments where us group of lowbies were camping a dungeon and some rando High Lv god would run by give everyone Thorns or Clarity we would all lose our crap so excited WAAAAGH LoL !!! Ok peeps we got 15mins PULL QUICKER !!!! LoL

I wish there were a few more buffing skills added to some classes. Currently there aren't really any that would drive something like this to happen. I used to go around doing drive by buffing on my Shammy in EQ. It was fun to see people's reactions when you did.

once the Xpac SoL/PoP came in EQ1 a Self Teleport system was brought in and it Killed off them classes pretty much IT ALSO killed off any interaction / dialogue made between said players.

You want fast travel, but at the same time you point out how that killed EQ. I agree fully that SoL began the demise and PoP killed it off. I met so many people while hanging out at a druid ring or waiting for a boat. Today, people seem to just want to get there, get there loot and get out. We all need to learn how to slow down, chat and enjoy some time with each other. Things that have been lost in most MMORPG's today.

If I recall, I believe at launch they are expecting to have 5 zones with a few more on the backburner waiting. EQ launched with 3 continents and well over 50 zones with the only way to travel between continents being boats and then limited portal locations around each one that higher level druids and wizards could utilize. A run across the karanas could take you quite a long time. I used to run almost daily between Freeport tunnel and High Pass when i was in my teens and never thought a thing about it. I just don't see a need for fast travel in EA..... Yet. I have said that if the world gets big enough to need it, then that will be a good thing because it means the game has grown and is successful.

entice them (blast it across the world) big noise so they can hear it across the world or in chat and like 8 lines long
8888888888888888888888888
8888888888888888888888888
Fred pick up got gloves
88888888888888888888888888
8888888888888888888888888
woot woot woot woot woot
8888888888888888888888888
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For all that is holy, please no. Nothing more irritating than having everything people achieve or do popping up on my screen constantly. It is annoying, gets in the way and completely breaks immersion.

 

[Kittik]

If an npc is red that means it is already 5+ levels above you. It does give experience, but at a greatly reduced rate. If red's gave everyone full experience then yes of course grouping would be the way to go - everyone would be killing reds and content designed for your level would be completely bypassed. If we want to expand the range of when something turns red we can have that discussion.

Yes. Please expand. It's disheartening when I'm grouping with folks only 1 or 2 levels higher than me, but we are in a spot where everything is red to me, but yellow to them. I think a level range of 4 in a group would be ok. Not sure what that means in terms of how to change mobs, but I can see a level 16, being ok with grouping with a level 12. Or a level 28 grouping with a level 24.

 

[Undone]

I think a level range of 4 in a group would be ok. Not sure what that means in terms of how to change mobs, but I can see a level 16, being ok with grouping with a level 12. Or a level 28 grouping with a level 24.

You realize the level range of a group is currently 10 right? No matter what we set the range to folks are going to run into this problem. If a group is tackling content that is yellow/orange to the highest member of the group then anyone joining lower than them will encounter this.

Mobs who are +6 are red, mobs that are -6 are gray. If a level 20 player groups with a level 10 player then in order for them both to get non-diminished experience they would need to be fighting level 15 creatures. That would make the target green for the high level player, and orange for the low level player.

 

[PapaDreadHead]

You want fast travel, but at the same time you point out how that killed EQ. I agree fully that SoL began the demise and PoP killed it off. I met so many people while hanging out at a druid ring or waiting for a boat. Today, people seem to just want to get there, get there loot and get out. We all need to learn how to slow down, chat and enjoy some time with each other. Things that have been lost in most MMORPG's today.

no no, I was pointing that when they added a Teleport system that functioned without player E.G. did not use Druid or Wizard that took away from player interaction/dialogue

1. you can have mount, they dont need to be 200000% speed, heck even 20% would be fine, actually 20% would prob feel really good LoL, there is zero reason to not have mounts in the game even if they come way later down the road after launch. Yup i get it only 5 zones at launch mounts will make the world feel small. that is 100% exactly what i said in New World as well the reason why they chose not to have mounts and i still say both NW & EA Need Mounts. there is no over all good justification of why there are no mounts..... Funny thing with NW at one point they were trying to say that in the Lore of the game all the Horses died on the ship ride over that is why there is no mounts LoLOL... like seriously.... if i remember as well NW only has like 5-7 maybe 8 zones at max and let me tell what..... Running from them or trying to scrape together the Azoth to Teleport from said A to B is/was a HUGEEEEE turn off to a lot of people. ill eat a poo sandwich all day long BUT you gota sell like its the best poo sandwich ever

1-1/2. Lets say you got 4hrs of play time today..... you log in on Newhaven, you shout out for group they say hey come to Dryfoot, cool omw.....20-30min run.... ya get there and oo guess what the Tank & Healz wifle couple are loggin off the for the nite.... you shout out for more peeps takes 10mins to get a responce, tank omw another 10-15mins,, one of the inital DPS that was there has to go now, now you need a HEalz and DPS still... ect.ect.ect.ect everyone of us has had this experience in EQ LoLOL get a Port Fay to Oasis, you get to LGuk and group falls apart... now your stuck /screwed in Lguk trying to find a spot.... this example should be a 1998-2004 problem in MMORPGs not a 2022 IMHO.

2. having a Heart/Recall/Bind spell/ability, gives a player more options on how they want to move around and a little bit more Flex on there time spent in game.

ha i did not even think about this till now, in WoW your Server was your Home, your faction was your 2nd family (Guild was my 1st family.... RL whats that ?!?! LoL) UNTIL the LFG/LFR insta que system was brought in during the last part of WotLK Xpac... and for most player experience's of the game that was the last good Xpac..... i bet you could look up Sub renewals and new peeps buying the game and at the end of WotLK/Catty you would see WoW on a down trend. my point is -------- Give things/experiences of the game to ADD to people having to interact with each other NEVER TAKING AWAY from people having to work together/interact together----

could i be wrong absolutely (this is just my opinion) but when you look at 2 juggernaut of western style MMORPGs EQ1 & WoW during such and such Xpacs the games started to go blahh and you look for elements/ new game functions that were brought in and changed the fundamental aspects of the game and both the examples i shared are ones that took away from Person to Person interaction & dialogue.

 

[PapaDreadHead]

You realize the level range of a group is currently 10 right? No matter what we set the range to folks are going to run into this problem. If a group is tackling content that is yellow/orange to the highest member of the group then anyone joining lower than them will encounter this.

Mobs who are +6 are red, mobs that are -6 are gray. If a level 20 player groups with a level 10 player then in order for them both to get non-diminished experience they would need to be fighting level 15 creatures. That would make the target green for the high level player, and orange for the low level player.

aye, i was lv10 a guy in my group was 14, he awsomely and sadly stoped with his exp grind to help me get to lv11 so i could get EXP to help him keep Lving..... now that is 1000000% a Great freaking example of Player to Player interaction BUTTTTTTTTT not all occurrences will be like that... EA very small tight-knit community = everyone knows everyone for the most part and most peeps are friendly ( same thing in CF back in the day despite it being full PvP game community was tight and loving) but once the game gets a decent Pop you can kiss that pretty much good bye sadly for the most part. when you can pick from 10-20-30 different people VS 5-7 atm mindsets/attitudes change quick LoL (the good and the bad)


I RLY RLY DILIKE !!!!! referencing EQ but againnnnnn, the way there EXP in groups was set up is spot on. if and Lv5 is in the group and Lv9 in the group. and they kill a lv10mob.... that Lv5 gets more of the EXP than the Lv9 does, hence catching up the Lv5 quicker to the lv9.....

hmm being able to see the Lv on mobs would help on this as well maybe.... them early Exiles out in Meadows what is there Lv range ?!?!

 

[Undone]

I RLY RLY DILIKE !!!!! referencing EQ but againnnnnn, the way there EXP in groups was set up is spot on. if and Lv5 is in the group and Lv9 in the group. and they kill a lv10mob.... that Lv5 gets more of the EXP than the Lv9 does, hence catching up the Lv5 quicker to the lv9.....

And this had a negative impact on the group dynamic because groups did not like bringing lower levels into their group who "sucked" up experience. Our game essentially works the same way without the penalty because if you kill a level 20 creature it gives a fixed amount of experience to everyone in the group. To a level 20 player that experience may be 1% of their level, but for a level 15 that experience may be 2-3% of their level (because level 15 requires less total xp to get to 16). It's the same exact thing that you are describing except it doesn't penalize the group for playing with lower level players.

hmm being able to see the Lv on mobs would help on this as well maybe.... them early Exiles out in Meadows what is there Lv range ?!?!

Level ranges are shown via chevron colors. We are not going to show you the direct level of a creature, that's for you and the group to infer.

 

[PapaDreadHead]

And this had a negative impact on the group dynamic because groups did not like bringing lower levels into their group who "sucked" up experience. Our game essentially works the same way without the penalty because if you kill a level 20 creature it gives a fixed amount of experience to everyone in the group. To a level 20 player that experience may be 1% of their level, but for a level 15 that experience may be 2-3% of their level (because level 15 requires less total xp to get to 16). It's the same exact thing that you are describing except it doesn't penalize the group for playing with lower level players.

I get what you are saying and the math behind it and it sounds good/looks good on paper but how it plays out when you are out there grinding does Look or feel that way, the impactfulness ?!?! ( made up a word) does not feel good LoL.

do you think allowing Red mobs to give EXP would remedy some of grouping situation, I might be wrong but i thought i read in patch notes that Red were to give EXP, but they give a DR, and if that the case there is no point to killing reds.

so if you have a full 6 group, 5 peeps are Lv15 and 1 person is lv10. the 5 people have to go fight mobs for this 1 person to gain a lv or 2 before he can be useful in a group / person can get EXP from kills.

maybe im still not seeing it right or understanding it correctly

Red mobs should give EXP without no DR.

 

[Undone]

I RLY RLY DILIKE !!!!! referencing EQ but againnnnnn, the way there EXP in groups was set up is spot on.

I get what you are saying and the math behind it and it sounds good/looks good on paper but how it plays out when you are out there grinding does Look or feel that way, the impactfulness ?!?! ( made up a word) does not feel good LoL.

There is some inconsistency in these two statements. EQ penalized higher level folks for grouping with lower level folks. Embers Adrift does not alter anyone's experience based on the level of other players in the group.

 

[PapaDreadHead]

There is some inconsistency in these two statements. EQ penalized higher level folks for grouping with lower level folks. Embers Adrift does not alter anyone's experience based on the level of other players in the group.

There is no inconsistency in the two statements

i never felt like i was penalized for being a higher Lv in EQ with lower lv peeps in the group. was the Norm to try and find people all around the same Lv to group with yes but at the end of the day if you had to pick up someone 3-4lvs lower than you to round a 6 man group, it would make the group better. The only time i can remember the term "Leaching" being used was when someone was Perm AFK pretty much

i was Quoting what you said -----Undone said:
And this had a negative impact on the group dynamic because groups did not like bringing lower levels into their group who "sucked" up experience. ----Our game essentially works the same way without the penalty ----- because if you kill a level 20 creature it gives a fixed amount of experience to everyone in the group. To a level 20 player that experience may be 1% of their level, but for a level 15 that experience may be 2-3% of their level (because level 15 requires less total xp to get to 16). It's the same exact thing that you are describing except it doesn't penalize the group for playing with lower level players.

PapaDreadHead said:
I get what you are saying and the math behind it and it sounds good/looks good on paper but how it plays out when you are out there grinding does Look or feel that way, the impactfulness ?!?! ( made up a word) does not feel good LoL.


I guess what i should ask then if there are no Penalties what is Diminished Experienced, its just diminished experience ??? not a penalty??