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Feedback Rare Mob Spawns

is this feedback?

Ranos

New Member
So in the previous build of the game a few of us noticed that the rare mobs seemed to have a more frequent spawn rate versus this current build. Named spawns are like a small dopamine fix for us who like to go out and hunt for particular creatures and the drops that come along are the big drip. Certain areas are barren or void of named mobs where as they use to spawn there before IE the wolf caves in meadows. I understand that the goal is to have them spawn rarely yes, or chalk it up to bad RNG, but going to the wolf caves frequently on our journey from 16-25 and not seeing one single named tells me that the rarity spawn RNG is set to Ludicrous (Space balls, sorry felt appropriate) on this build. Now after talking with the high level group about it some ideas came up in the conversation to help a dopamine effect happen and keep the player engaged. The only idea I remember is described down below, I believe that was Boons.

Have the rare mob spawn a little more frequently than the current setting, but the drops on the table still have a chance to drop crap and no rare loot. This would work and has worked with other old school games and remind the player that a rare does infact spawn there and the server isnt broken or w/e. Also gives that tiny dopamine boost when seeing the named, followed by a huge let down when the rare loot doesnt drop then immediately followed by a need to keep killing. Some people do like camping certain areas for steady XP and theres always a need to leave and abandon the camp when your tanks gear gets to busted.

But bottom line is, that wolf cave is probably the rarest I've ever seen a named pop in any MMO. I think we are on weekend 3 of doing wolf cave checks for nameds. Only got to see one cause we harassed Adric (Sorry bud, was fun though).

Thanks for reading
-Roar
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
Our rare spawns do not work like older games. We do not “promote” static camps. If you stick around in one spot and expect a rare but do not get a rare, then it’s not all too surprising that you continue to not get a rare. I can’t really say much more without explicitly telling you how our system works - and for obvious reasons we do not want to share that information.
 
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Xavure

Active Member
Our rare spawns do not work like older games. We do not “promote” static camps. If you stick around in one spot and expect a rare but do not get a rare, then it’s not all too surprising that you continue to not get a rare. I can’t really say much more without explicitly telling you how our system works - and for obvious reasons we do not want to share that information.
I'll give you 2 areas that makes camping mostly required:

1 - Wolf Cave (obviously) - This cave is so small that we do not need to move hence no rare spawn. We stay there until we need repair, bored or overlevel.
2 - Champion Arena* in Dryfoot Stronghold - We get there, it take quite some times, there's no way we are gonna go back up and forth to see if it spawn, so we camp there until we need repair, bored or overlevel.

Suggestion:
Some Named shouldn't be rare when camping is necessary, you should use the suggestion made by "Swett Hogg" aka Knoon, the named is always there, but the loot is not 100%. Unless, you find a way to fix your way of spawning rare when static camp is almost mandatory.

*Other toughts about the Champion Arena: this should be an event that you start somehow with a succession of spawns, an increased difficulty each time, until at last the Champion. At the end we would be awarded with a treasure chest if we succeed. Make the required procedure to start the event quite long and difficult so it's not a free chest thing.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
I'll give you 2 areas that makes camping mostly required:

1 - Wolf Cave (obviously) - This cave is so small that we do not need to move hence no rare spawn. We stay there until we need repair, bored or overlevel.
2 - Champion Arena* in Dryfoot Stronghold - We get there, it take quite some times, there's no way we are gonna go back up and forth to see if it spawn, so we camp there until we need repair, bored or overlevel.
I'm not sure what you mean by "camping mostly required"?

If you are interested in rare spawns, camping (in the traditional sense) is not going to get you want you 90% of the time. I really can't say much more without explaining how our spawners work - which is something we are not going to do. You are more than welcome to continue camping, but you should have no expectations of a guaranteed rare.
 

Ranos

New Member
I'm not sure what you mean by "camping mostly required"?

If you are interested in rare spawns, camping (in the traditional sense) is not going to get you want you 90% of the time. I really can't say much more without explaining how our spawners work - which is something we are not going to do. You are more than welcome to continue camping, but you should have no expectations of a guaranteed rare.
I think we are both trying to say that certain nameds should be camps because it makes sense to the player. I'm pretty sure your design is to just keep running around based on our emberfly success of doing just that.
 

Xavure

Active Member
I'm not sure what you mean by "camping mostly required"?
I mean there is no point of running anywhere else, as the spawn rate is perfect and we just have to sit there and kill stuff.
One solution would be to increase the respawn timer to force player to move and get them moving.

If you are interested in rare spawns, camping (in the traditional sense) is not going to get you want you 90% of the time. I really can't say much more without explaining how our spawners work - which is something we are not going to do. You are more than welcome to continue camping, but you should have no expectations of a guaranteed rare.
As a player, my main goal is rare spawn and big boss battle. I've never camp in any other games, that's the first time I do that. I don't hate it, I actually like it, but I hate that i'm being punished for it kinda.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
I think we are both trying to say that certain nameds should be camps because it makes sense to the player. I'm pretty sure your design is to just keep running around based on our emberfly success of doing just that.
Ah ok I see what you are saying. However, I disagree that things should be camps because that's what the player expects. I feel that traditional "camps" are fundamentally flawed in that they promote toxic behavior and allow groups/guilds to gain a monopoly on certain items. We have already seen some of this with an earlier iteration of the wolf-den which caused a huge amount of grief between two competing groups.

I mean there is no point of running anywhere else, as the spawn rate is perfect and we just have to sit there and kill stuff.
One solution would be to increase the respawn timer to force player to move and get them moving.
I'm not here to force you to do anything. Our job as designers is to provide you with choice. I'm fine if you want to camp the cave for experience. What I'm not fine with however, is groups sitting in one spot farming rares for drops.

As a player, my main goal is rare spawn and big boss battle. I've never camp in any other games, that's the first time I do that. I don't hate it, I actually like it, but I hate that i'm being punished for it kinda.
How are you being punished? From my perspective you are prioritizing fast and repetitive adventuring experience over the desire for rare drops.
 

Xavure

Active Member
How are you being punished? From my perspective you are prioritizing fast and repetitive adventuring experience over the desire for rare drops.
By lowering the chances to have a rare spawn in area where spawn camping is the way to do it (suggested by design). I would prefer to be on the move all the time, but the game design forces you to camp (aka faster respawn rate).
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
By lowering the chances to have a rare spawn in area where spawn camping is the way to do it (suggested by design). I would prefer to be on the move all the time, but the game design forces you to camp (aka faster respawn rate).
I'm still not sure how the design forces to you to camp? That still seems like an active decision made by you and your group. Are you suggesting we slow the respawn rate? I feel like that is a situation where we are damned if we do (people will complain that the spawns are too slow), and damned if we don't (people will complain that moving around to kill stuff is a waste of their time when they can sit in one spot).

I think both choices are viable. One of those choices however, leads to a less likely chance of encountering a rare spawn, and hence rare loot. If we reverted the wolf-den (for example) back to a campable place then we are just encouraging the thing we are actively trying to discourage, creating an environment for toxic behavior, and allowing you to have your cake, AND eat it :D
 

Ranos

New Member
Ah ok I see what you are saying. However, I disagree that things should be camps because that's what the player expects. I feel that traditional "camps" are fundamentally flawed in that they promote toxic behavior and allow groups/guilds to gain a monopoly on certain items. We have already seen some of this with an earlier iteration of the wolf-den which caused a huge amount of grief between two competing groups.


I'm not here to force you to do anything. Our job as designers is to provide you with choice. I'm fine if you want to camp the cave for experience. What I'm not fine with however, is groups sitting in one spot farming rares for drops.


How are you being punished? From my perspective you are prioritizing fast and repetitive adventuring experience over the desire for rare drops.
I am 100% aware of that situation. But please do remember from the eyes of an MMO player, if you are to venture into a cave/ arena your expectation is to face some sort of boss. From my perspective this game is marketed as "an old school style mmo" that kind of mechanic is a give in. I'm not saying do that everywhere, just in places where an old school player would expect that. The arena and wolf caves are and example. I realize cv is a dungeon and done pretty well with how those nameds spawn. But the arena I'm 100% behind xavure on that. It only makes sense in the actual game world for the champion to spawn in the arena. Part of playing an old school game was being respectful of people camping a mob and moving onto the next thing. I realize it's not your job to be the police of the server, but one instance should not have the effect it did on gameplay because people decided to be immature.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
I am 100% aware of that situation. But please do remember from the eyes of an MMO player, if you are to venture into a cave/ arena your expectation is to face some sort of boss. From my perspective this game is marketed as "an old school style mmo" that kind of mechanic is a give in. I'm not saying do that everywhere, just in places where an old school player would expect that. The arena and wolf caves are and example. I realize cv is a dungeon and done pretty well with how those nameds spawn. But the arena I'm 100% behind xavure on that. It only makes sense in the actual game world for the champion to spawn in the arena. Part of playing an old school game was being respectful of people camping a mob and moving onto the next thing. I realize it's not your job to be the police of the server, but one instance should not have the effect it did on gameplay because people decided to be immature.
The change to the wolf-den was not because of that particular incident. It was basically incomplete at the time it was enabled and we had just never got around to finishing out that spawn controller. That particular incident just helped to remind us to do what we were planning in the first place. Spawns right now make sense in the larger context from our perspective. But again, without getting into details about how that particular system works I can't really tell you why we feel they make sense.

The bottom line is that we do not intend for rare spawns to be easily campable. This poses an additional design challenge for us, and maybe it's another one of those instances where we are going against the grain. But at the end of the day we are doing what we think is best for the community and game as a whole - which is redefining our idea of a rare "camp".
 

Ranos

New Member
" Named spawns are like a small dopamine fix for us who like to go out and hunt for particular creatures and the drops that come along are the big drip" Happy to hear you guys took this into account with your recent alteration.
 

Battlestorm

Active Member
Maybe it’s just me, but by removing and preventing a static or “trigger-able” spawn in a popular camping spot it feels like that would allow for the fair distribution of rare encounters across a region/dungeon. I get that it makes the encounter less predictable, but I think that’s kind of the point.

I recall predictable spawns in old-school MMO’s. The dev team had to make the rare drop impossible to pick up more than once per day/week/month or players had to hope for the kindness of strangers camping the spot - or both. When the rare spawn could be anywhere, the entire dungeon/region is put back in the hands of every player - it even loosens up the traffic in popular grind spots.

A sneaky bit of logic that moves the spawn around to give everyone a shot…I have to give that my vote, just gotta make sure it’s not so rare that no one looks for it or that it causes a gap in viability/functionality of an important part of the game.