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Questions on player retention

Battlestorm

Active Member
Although Myself and other did suggest many different ways in Beta to help make grouping easier and faster. But of course the devs decided not to implement those ideas. So here we are.

Again many people suggested things, but were mostly blown off. Of course there was no shortage of Fanbois who would White Knight for the devs saying this would not be a problem.
idk on these statements, I mean, what your'e saying is that you and the community could have saved the game if the EA devs did everything and exactly what we told them - the problem is that we didn't all agree...and that anything like this type of game is most definitely NOT that simple. Did you not say you've done this type for work before? Not to mention that our suggestions didn't always fit the vision of the game as a whole.

There are DEFINITELY white knights who try to perform outlandishly-silly defensive maneuvers for this game. That's more harmful than they realize. We have to be objective and helpful, not delusional. I agree whole-heartedly, here.

I'm not trying to defend the devs or underplay our many suggestions, but I think it's overly presumptuous to think that our suggestions would have "saved the game" when it may not need saving. It's FAR too soon to be sure of anything - it's been a month. From the very start the EA team advertised this as a group-focused game and compromised by adding solo areas. I use them a lot, I'm happy with that compromise. Does "solo" fit their vision? Nope. Did they do it? Yep. Is that compromise. Yep. Is that going to put them at WoW number? Nope. Did they know that? Yep.

Again, I most certainly didn't feel blown off - I had a reasonable expectation that, if anything, I'd at least be able to speak my part. We as players have gotten a LOT more than that from the EA team. A lot. They come ALL the way down-and-out of their ivory bubbles and say hello, daily. They're honest, doing their best, and have made compromises with their dream. They continue to do that. Anything more and I'd feel greedy.

To give the devs some credit, I wont say I was totally blown off, some things they implemented almost immediately after it was posted.
Rekonized.

However there were many other things I recommended that they didn't do, so in the end is seems they didn't go far enough.
Would you only be satisfied if someone else did exactly and everything you tell them with their time, money, resources, and dreams? I'm not saying that's what you're trying to impart, but that's certainly an interpretation that could be made...an easy one. Again, also implying sun has set when dusk just broke over the horizon.

In the end thou, I think the devs didn't go far enough into encourage solo players to group in things other than killing mobs.
They made the game so it had to be tackled by a group. Advertised it over and over again in every medium. It's literally part of the core tenant of the game. Wanna see cool stuff? Find a group. PUGs everywhere. World, zone, shout, and trade chat all work. LFG works, even if people aren't using it - that's not their fault. Sure, more could be done, but there's always more. I'm sure what exists is not the end.

For example I suggested people in the same group should all a copy of the resource that was farmed. That way people who are just out gathering resources would group together and gather together. You would see multiple parties forming just to gather resources.
Instanced loot. I love the idea. Sounds challenging, but I think its right and fair.

Summon command would have worked wonders on this.
Okay, yeah, I agree, on a timer or something. Kind of magical, so they'd have to call it "Fellowship Recon" or something.

The question is why are people solo in the first place? They needed to remove the barriers causing people to solo, but not force people to group. Just make it easier and beneficial to do so.
I think you know the answer here, we're all busy adults who want to be part of this type of game and world, but we don't all always have time to play in a group for an hour+ straight. Does that mean it might not be for me? Sure, perhaps. Otherwise, I could just be patient, farm the many solo areas, gather, craft, chat, and enjoy what I can. If I have extra time, I LFG. It's that simple. It may not work out for everyone, but that's okay too. I think it works out for plenty of folks...even heavy soloers like me. When it does not, I'll wish them luck without attempting to negatively sabotage the game in literally every social media outlet I can find - not that anyone is doing that right now, just a general statement.
 

Virsago

Member
They made the game so it had to be tackled by a group. Advertised it over and over again in every medium. It's literally part of the core tenant of the game. Wanna see cool stuff? Find a group. PUGs everywhere. World, zone, shout, and trade chat all work. LFG works, even if people aren't using it - that's not their fault. Sure, more could be done, but there's always more. I'm sure what exists is not the end.
Yes it's been well established the ideal vision of this game is for it to be played in a group. So much so, that if you attempt to play solo for any reason, you will not be having a good time. This is why I mentioned earlier that the devs singular focus on this has ended up being a detriment to the game. There simply isn't a large enough population to facilitate this. You can find groups temporarily to complete a quest if you are patient or lucky enough to have a static group to play with. You may also jump into a group for farming xp, which typically lasts for about 30 mins -1 hr. So then the issue is, what do you do between those instances? My experience has been that despite the games design to be played in a group, I end up spending most of my time in game solo. I don't have a static group to play with. I joined a guild with plenty of players, but they are mostly cliqued up with players that line up with them in level and schedule. I don't seem to be the only player having these issues either.

Not having anything to do during the times a group isn't available besides killing the local wildlife for little reward and gathering crafting mats doesn't make for a very good time. Not that those things are without merit, but it's not how many of us want to spend the majority of our time in game. We want to do something that's fun, not chores. If the current solo experience is a compromise, and requires no further adjustments then I think the decline in retention will only get worse from here. Nothing drives players away faster than feeling like they're wasting their time.

The game world is great, and there's a lot to like about it. The times I've played in groups I had a lot of fun and it was rewarding. But I've spent far more time being bored, and watching world chat for an opportunity to have more fun, with not much success. In the short few weeks the game has been out, I've noticed a steady and sharp decline in those opportunities. And it's not due to a lack of incentive for groups, which leaves me to supspect the issue is a lack of players to fill those groups. Having something to do that is rewarding and engaging by yourself would make this a non-issue. If that goes entirely against the vision of the game, then player retention will continue to be a problem for the foreseeable future of this game.
 

Kaeolin

Well-Known Member
Amazing how many people think they know what's going on in the game world. The Dev's (Drindin Specifically) said they exceeded the estimates they had for the game. The launch has been a huge success for them. This was said this week during a Community meeting on Thursday. It's not being some blind fan boy to believe what they say. They've never once tried to mislead anybody. The game is what they've always said it was. Many have learned the game isn't what they thought it was. However, even after the subs kicked in for Alpha/beta players, we still have a decent player base. In fact, there are times where too many are playing in certain areas.
 

MrDDT

Active Member
As expected, the numbers fell off a cliff once the sub requirement hit for Beta/Alpha/Preorders.
Even launch day was relatively low at less than 1500 people on at the same time.
I was checking numbers using the tools we had with the /who options. I checked weekly every SAT at prime time which is about 7pm server time (CST). It had gone down and down and down each week, by a little about 50 people.

Then this last week, it was very very low. About 300 less.
This is likely mostly all to do with the subs but also the game just isn't where it needed to be to get the hype and keep people. There are lots of factors, as others have pointed out. Sadly this had a great core going for it, but it just fell very short. I think it's also going to reflect poorly on "PVE only" games and people will use this as a failure of PVE games when it was mostly just a major lack of content and hitting the mark of what is going on.
Even the vets are burning out and not playing as there is no higher level content yet, they are capped out.
 

MrDDT

Active Member
Amazing how many people think they know what's going on in the game world. The Dev's (Drindin Specifically) said they exceeded the estimates they had for the game. The launch has been a huge success for them. This was said this week during a Community meeting on Thursday. It's not being some blind fan boy to believe what they say. They've never once tried to mislead anybody. The game is what they've always said it was. Many have learned the game isn't what they thought it was. However, even after the subs kicked in for Alpha/beta players, we still have a decent player base. In fact, there are times where too many are playing in certain areas.
Well anyone can say this if they expected a lowball number. If they are happy with the current playerbase then that's cool for them, however, as you can see many PLAYERS are not happy.
But I wonder if you will be saying this still after 6 months when there is 25 people playing.
You will always have people saying this type of thing. I've seen it in my other very dead games where the number of people are very small (less than 100). The few people playing think its fine to be running an "MMO" with 100 people total playing daily.
My real question for you is what do you consider "decent" as this will likely detail what is a "success" or not. My numbers for a decent "MMO" are not 100 people playing. It's like 1000.
and a "Huge Success" for an MMO would be over 50k
 

Virsago

Member
Amazing how many people think they know what's going on in the game world. The Dev's (Drindin Specifically) said they exceeded the estimates they had for the game. The launch has been a huge success for them. This was said this week during a Community meeting on Thursday. It's not being some blind fan boy to believe what they say. They've never once tried to mislead anybody. The game is what they've always said it was. Many have learned the game isn't what they thought it was. However, even after the subs kicked in for Alpha/beta players, we still have a decent player base. In fact, there are times where too many are playing in certain areas.
While it's good to hear that the game exceeded the devs expectations with regard to number of players, this does very little for the average player experience and does not reflect the decline we're seeing. This discussion is about player retention, and the trend we're all seeing is that it's declining quickly. This is to be expected as people jump in at launch and leave after. Happens with every game launch. The issue here is, this game is so firmly entrenched in group play, that this decline has a direct and significant impact on the players ability to progress and have fun. Anyone who hasn't found a static group of people to play with, and isn't lvl 15+ already is going to spend a lot of time playing solo. And playing solo isn't fun or rewarding at all.

Being focused on group play is cool, when you have enough groups going for everyone to find a group. When the game reaches a tipping point where groups aren't being formed or filled fast enough to keep the player base engaged, then that focus becomes a big problem. We may not be quite there yet, but I know at least some of us are already feeling this. As new players coming into the game slows down, and the starter areas start to empty out this is going to become a massive problem for retention. If all the content is geared towards groups, and new players can't find groups, they are going to get bored very quickly. Bored players find other games to play.
 

Raraldor

New Member
So overall consensus seems to be people who do play are rather active, but it could still take about and hour to find a group, or even longer off of peak hours which is when I would be playing. Thanks everyone!

I don't have the time right now to dedicate an hour or more to the possibility of grouping shenanigans, no matter how good the game is. I'll be sure to keep the game in mind though
 
The key question to ask regarding retention is why are players bouncing off of the game? It's not content really as most are not reaching that point. An even bigger question is why are players who this game seems ideal for bouncing off of it? Lazy Peon's video will no doubt bring in some new players (although his video touched on almost nothing) but what then. How will the game retain those players?

That's what I would be asking myself.
 

Kaeolin

Well-Known Member
My real question for you is what do you consider "decent" as this will likely detail what is a "success" or not. My numbers for a decent "MMO" are not 100 people playing. It's like 1000.
and a "Huge Success" for an MMO would be over 50k
The honest answer here is 5. I need 5 other people to play during my peak times. There are no raids, no content above a 6 person group. Whether there is 5 people or 500 doesn't matter. If the studio can keep it going, and continue development, doesn't matter. Obviously we know 6 people can't carry the game forward, but ultimately, that's all you need if you want to experience group content.

I've seen people come and go in my time, starting in Alpha, all the way into now Release. /who statements don't really matter. The mostly healthy discussion about this is just that, discussions. I've said all along that it's NOT our game, we just play it. We each have provided feedback and the studio makes whatever decisions they do based on their own experience, game development plan, and our feedback. They have changed some things based on feedback, and other things they've remained steadfast and refused to change. It's up to each person to decide if the game is for them.
 

RazorBrains

Well-Known Member
The honest answer here is 5.

5 people = success or a decent amount of players for an MMO to you? LOL that is funny, I will give you credit for being honest at least.
If the Devs have the same definition as you, then I suppose they can call this game a success, because in a few of months the concurrent numbers will be pretty close to that.

I know the Devs have listened to a lot of your suggestions since I seen them regurgitate the talking points all through beta when there was debate about making the game more appealing to a larger audience.

I guess a congratulations are in order. You and a few others have managed to successfully convince the devs to make the game of your dreams.

If this is the case however, why the MMO label? 5 people doesn't seem like a "Massively" amount players.
 

Kaeolin

Well-Known Member
5 people = success or a decent amount of players for an MMO to you? LOL that is funny, I will give you credit for being honest at least.
5 is all that is required for me to play and participate in group content. I did go on to say that obviously 6 people can't carry and support the game. Drindin said that they exceeded their expectations. I know that because of instancing limitations they can't instance the dungeons and therefore they do get crowded at times even with the current numbers. If we had 1000 people, there wouldn't be enough space for people to play. There isn't enough overland locations to support that kind of population. Perhaps the idea of growing slowly works better for this team. Had 1k people joined at launch, I think it'd have been a huge failure. This let them get some money from launch and reinvest it back into development. Who knows where we'll be in 6 months or even 12 months.

With regard to any suggestions I, or any other of the likeminded folks in game, that were implemented, I can assure you that for as many things that were implemented, at least that many were not. Same with your suggestions. They listened to and implemented some, and others they did not. I've always felt it's the Dev's vision we are trying to influence. Ultimately it's on them to make the decisions they made based on our feedback.
 

Bandrashu

New Member
It is a funny thing in away. On some days it takes a long time to find a group while on other days it takes like 2 minutes and then you can stay grouped for a couple of hours which also means good times. My group experience in this game is great. I have met a lot of nice people and we always had a blast while grouping.

On other days, however, you can spam all available channels for hours and you will not even find one more person to group with. Even people with the LFG tag on will either not respond or decline your group request.

Then again, sometimes you cannot find anyone in the zone (good time for gathering stuff) while other times everybody seems to be collecting the same materials you need.

Population seems to be a bit more stretched now but you can always see new people in game or, at least, that is what they say in the chat :) so there seems to be some new people around.

I think a better LFG tool could help to make the game experience better for new players too. Spamming LFG is not that fun, let's admit it. Guilds are also interesting. There are some very active ones but then something happens and people leave or just won't group anymore. Not just with me, with anyone. The whole guild interface seems to be a bit low budget and it is not that informative anyways. Yes, I know that a lot of guilds are n Discord too but the in game tools should be better.

I think there is nothing wrong with the pacing of the game. The things that can frighten people away from this game are these:

- clunky animations - the 2 hander walk when unsheathed is still hilarious but a lot of people take a look at that and say: no, thank you. This is crap.
- outdated guild/trade/LFG tools
- lack of information (tool tips are not always helpful)
- misleading quest descriptions: weapons cache quest for example. According to the text you are looking for a cache... and what you actually need looks like a weapon rack. That is confusing for a lot of people.
- limited solo options. I know that this is supposed to be a group focused game but see above, quite often you may not be able to find a group quick enough and then you just wait a bit and log. Especially, if you only have a couple of hours to play.
- slow combat - maybe it is related to the animations point. It looks disturbing to see your toon hit once in every 6 seconds and then just stand there. Some more "empty" movement would come in handy...to give you the feeling that your toon is actually doing something like preparing to swing that weapon of yours, take a step sideways...anything that would justify the 6 second wait time. I know that with other weapons it is like 1-6 seconds but most of the ppl I have met used a 2 hander.
 

Virsago

Member
It is a funny thing in away. On some days it takes a long time to find a group while on other days it takes like 2 minutes and then you can stay grouped for a couple of hours which also means good times. My group experience in this game is great. I have met a lot of nice people and we always had a blast while grouping.
Sounds like your experience with grouping has already been better than mine. In the first week after launch I was getting in groups and progressing quite nicely, but after that it's been a struggle. I did meet some good folks in a guild I joined, but rarely grouped with them due to the difference in levels between myself and the core active players in the guild. They were fun people to hang with in discord, but being in a guild didn't help my ability to find a group at all unfortunately.

The sad reality is, in this game that is singularly focused on grouping there are a lot of factors working against you finding a group and staying in a group for any length of time. My honest opinion is that if they want to bump up player retention, they need to put together some solo content. I know that flies in the face of the group focused gameplay design they're after here, but when you aren't in a group the game loses nearly all of it's fun. If you're designing a game I would think it would be important to not let the design get in the way of the fun.

I agree with pretty much every point you made. Bad animations, slow combat, bad questing and outdated / nearly useless tools for the players to engage in pretty much any activity in the game are all working against the game. Which is a shame, because the low-fantasy world and the slow progression make for an interesting world to spend a lot of time in. But players aren't going to do that if they spend more time being bored than being entertained. And in this game, it's group up or be bored. That's it...nothing in between.
 
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RazorBrains

Well-Known Member
Let me see if I have this correct. People have a good time grouping, so lets add a bunch of solo only content into the game so less groups will form and less fun. How does that even make sense?

There is solo content in this game, the problem is that grouping is more fun. You can grind mobs solo just the same as grouping. You dont need groups to harvest or craft. The only things solo is missing is a little bit of loot that is completely useless in this game anyway. High end group only content is part of pretty much every MMO, and they dont see to have a problem.

The problems are why is everyone leaving and what is preventing people from grouping now? Solve those and you will solve the problem of the not enough people to group problem.

I am sure most people who have 30min or 1 hour dont want to spend that time looking for groups, or running around the zone for all that time. Its so much easier to just solo a few mobs around town, or go out harvesting/crafting.

Because people cant get into groups QUICKLY, they opt out in most cases. So unless you have multiple continuous hours, its just easier to not group up.

Another major problem, is if you have a decent group of 2,3,4 what is the incentive to add another person? Again waste of time trying to get someone, its such a hassle. Its especially bad if someone in your group of 3 is going to be leaving soon anyways, why bother.

I can 100% tell you what will not solve the grouping problem, is incentivising more solo. Not at least until after you solve the structural grouping issue. I will say that I do think, if its easy and incentived to get groups, then having solo can help the game. Because having solo content can give people more things to do during the downtime, when grouping is not an option for you. But with these structural problems, incentivising solo content will drive players out of groups.
 

Battlestorm

Active Member
Let me see if I have this correct. People have a good time grouping, so lets add a bunch of solo only content into the game so less groups will form and less fun. How does that even make sense?

There is solo content in this game, the problem is that grouping is more fun. You can grind mobs solo just the same as grouping. You dont need groups to harvest or craft. The only things solo is missing is a little bit of loot that is completely useless in this game anyway. High end group only content is part of pretty much every MMO, and they dont see to have a problem.

The problems are why is everyone leaving and what is preventing people from grouping now? Solve those and you will solve the problem of the not enough people to group problem.

I am sure most people who have 30min or 1 hour dont want to spend that time looking for groups, or running around the zone for all that time. Its so much easier to just solo a few mobs around town, or go out harvesting/crafting.

Because people cant get into groups QUICKLY, they opt out in most cases. So unless you have multiple continuous hours, its just easier to not group up.

Another major problem, is if you have a decent group of 2,3,4 what is the incentive to add another person? Again waste of time trying to get someone, its such a hassle. Its especially bad if someone in your group of 3 is going to be leaving soon anyways, why bother.

I can 100% tell you what will not solve the grouping problem, is incentivising more solo. Not at least until after you solve the structural grouping issue. I will say that I do think, if its easy and incentived to get groups, then having solo can help the game. Because having solo content can give people more things to do during the downtime, when grouping is not an option for you. But with these structural problems, incentivising solo content will drive players out of groups.
I can see your point, but the best stuff you can get your hands on is only attainable via grouping. That, in-and-of itself, is a reason to always seek a group when you can. So, I see your logic, and It may have a slight impact, but not entirely. If you cannot afford the 1 hour+ timeline to get in a group and make it to the end of a dungeon (or an egress point), then it makes sense to potentially consider more solo content. More solo content may mean more players. That might end up helping provide more group fill opportunities. Just another perspective/outcome to consider.

That said, on-point to what you’re already conveying…the game was meant for grouping pretty much all the time. Personally, I can’t maintain dedicated gamer friends as I don’t have a career and family lifestyle that allows me to adhere to prescribed game times. Even if I did, it still wouldn’t make up the bulk of my available game time. So, I take advantage of what small windows I have to play the (albeit limited) solo grind, talk in chat, harvest/craft, help others, etc.

I honestly still think it’s too early to guess at what stable numbers or growth looks like. I’m not offering a solution to make grouping easier, I’m not sure what that is (a queue for dungeons?). I believe we need time for the initial release influx and exodus to settle before we start making predictions about Q1 2023. I do think it would be helpful if someone could post the outcome of launch and how closely expectations may have been met. I don’t think we need numbers, but a launch summary of impressions and expectations post release would help alleviate some of the confusion about what happened, is happening, and/or will happen in the coming months.
 

Virsago

Member
Let me see if I have this correct. People have a good time grouping, so lets add a bunch of solo only content into the game so less groups will form and less fun. How does that even make sense?

There is solo content in this game, the problem is that grouping is more fun. You can grind mobs solo just the same as grouping. You dont need groups to harvest or craft. The only things solo is missing is a little bit of loot that is completely useless in this game anyway. High end group only content is part of pretty much every MMO, and they dont see to have a problem.
I'd like to address these two statements as they pertain to my claim that there needs to be solo content in the game. First I suppose I should address what exactly I mean by that. I don't consider killing animals outside of points of interest and gathering crafting mats as "solo content". These are things you can do sure, and you're gonna want those mats so it can be productive. But it isn't particularly engaging or fun. When I say "content" I'm speaking about things that players actually want to do. In other games this usually takes the form of questing, or mini dungeons that players can explore and grind in. Maybe mini bosses that have a chance to drop something nice, but not as good as what you might find in a group dungeon. Things that are fun and rewarding, but can't take the place of what you might get out of a group scenario.

The reason I say the game needs more of this content, is because this is what will keep a player engaged and having fun even when there is no group to be found. There is a lot that could be done to make grouping up easier and faster which would be great and very helpful. But a big part of the reason finding a group is difficult is directly related to the fact that there is a small population, and content that is available to you is restricted by your current level. So you need to find five other people who want to do the same thing you want to do, and they all need to be in a specific level range. And you need to find them in a small pool of players to pick from. The devs can do a lot to make things easier, but one thing that is beyond their direct control is population. So...in a game with a small population and such restrictive grouping availability you need things players can do on their own. And those things need to be fun and rewarding, or the players will simply go find that in other games. I hope that clarifies my position a bit.
 

Raraldor

New Member
I haven't played this game so I'm gonna delete this post if this is already in the game, it's just an idea from another game that lends itself well to the current discussion.

I didn't play too much of it, but Dark Age of Camelot's dungeons, at least the initial ones, were filled with strong but manageable monsters in the first layer that you could solo if you were careful. That gave people something to do in the immediate area while waiting on their party to ready themselves or while waiting for a party in general. It doesn't erase the need for a party to actually do the dungeon, but it could alleviate at least some of the pain of sitting around in global chat hoping someone somewhere will turn up. Maybe give the monster a small chance to drop a material that's one tier higher or something (again, if such a thing exists).
 

RazorBrains

Well-Known Member
I haven't played this game so I'm gonna delete this post if this is already in the game, it's just an idea from another game that lends itself well to the current discussion.

I didn't play too much of it, but Dark Age of Camelot's dungeons, at least the initial ones, were filled with strong but manageable monsters in the first layer that you could solo if you were careful. That gave people something to do in the immediate area while waiting on their party to ready themselves or while waiting for a party in general. It doesn't erase the need for a party to actually do the dungeon, but it could alleviate at least some of the pain of sitting around in global chat hoping someone somewhere will turn up. Maybe give the monster a small chance to drop a material that's one tier higher or something (again, if such a thing exists).

Yeah I suggested this way back in beta. They actually took that suggestion and implemented it mostly in the outerworld at the various camps. There is a little bit of this in the dungeons, where 2 ups are at the start... However they didnt want camps in dungeons because the devs said they wanted dungeons to be roaming.

I agree with you on this thou totally, the reasoning is sound. Not only that, but if a group needs extra people they can go to the start and ask the solo people if they need a group. Also other solo players can just see each other farming and start forming small parties that progress to large parties.

100% behind this idea.

Just to note thou, its not really the dungeon mobs these people want, its the dungeon bosses. There are a few special mobs that drop some decent stuff in certain areas, but mostly people want the bosses. Thats were the good loot is coming from. If you can even call that good loot.
 

RazorBrains

Well-Known Member
I'd like to address these two statements as they pertain to my claim that there needs to be solo content in the game. First I suppose I should address what exactly I mean by that. I don't consider killing animals outside of points of interest and gathering crafting mats as "solo content". These are things you can do sure, and you're gonna want those mats so it can be productive. But it isn't particularly engaging or fun. When I say "content" I'm speaking about things that players actually want to do. In other games this usually takes the form of questing, or mini dungeons that players can explore and grind in.

Yeah I agree with you here to some degree, I already presented a similair idea in beta with the lead dev. I said what they needed to do was take their rift design and expand it. Have mini rifts pop up all over, where they are just small mini dungeons (copy/paste pieces of a real dungeon) have different rifts color coded for solo, small group, large group. Then when the leader of the group or solo person zones in, it becomes their own mini instance. At the end of the small dungeon there is a boss, and a exit at the start and end. Once the group/solo person exits, the dungeon dissapears after 15 minutes, and respawns/resets to another location in the world. They could have at least 5 of these per zone. They could even make the spawns generate randomly so you never know what types of mobs are inside, like all wolves, or all humans, all spiders etc...

The key to the idea, is they wouldnt need to build another zone, they could reuse existing dungeon designs by only taking small parts of existing dungeons. This would be a fast way to increase content of the game overall, it would also randomize content ..... Its really no different than what games like like Diablo, Valheim have.

Also when people find these, it would encourage people to shout out locally for help, just like when people stumble on a world boss.

Yeah well devs blew the idea off. What can I say.
 

RazorBrains

Well-Known Member
I do think it would be helpful if someone could post the outcome of launch and how closely expectations may have been met. I don’t think we need numbers, but a launch summary of impressions and expectations post release would help alleviate some of the confusion about what happened, is happening, and/or will happen in the coming months.

Not sure where the confusion is. Its painfully obvious. Its a death sentence to tell customer there are problems. Do you want all the other customers to jump ship also?

I remember in Beta the Dev team said they were planning to reset, didnt even give an exact timeframe. They were shocked, when immediately everyone dissapeared, I think they didnt even reset for another month and a half. The game was a ghost town because nobody wants to waste time on something that is going to end soon. If anything they will probably remember that lesson.

Likely they are planning to release to Steam, or make deal with Microsoft/xbox, or Epic. They should have one more shot at the apple at least I would think. I hope they make the changes they need to make, because that will be the final chance IMO.