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Feedback May 18th Test Feedback

is this feedback?

Meeks

Member
I've mentioned several times in the few weeks since I discovered Embers Adrift how much it gets right and how much I'm enjoying playing. But that doesn't tell the whole tale. It occurred to me that perhaps to an equal degree what's bringing me back is the community. Nearly every time I log in, someone recognizes me and says hello. I'm routinely invited to group with people I know and everyone is uniformly warm and friendly. I've had the same experience on Discord and here in the forums. The devs are available, active, and consider all feedback with genuine objectivity. So kudos to the Embers Adrift community as a whole... you're doing more than you realize to help this game succeed.

I'd also be remiss if I didn't give a big shout-out to @Elloa. I can't imagine a better ambassador for your game or more powerful one-woman welcoming committee. I've enjoyed interacting with her in-game, on media platforms, and watching her Twitch/Youtube streams. Her kindness, knowledge, and enthusiasm for the game are infectious.

With that said, on to the feedback! I'm beginning with a few items from a previous post that I think may have been lost in the shuffle, followed by some new items that came about during last night's test.
  • Allow me to add my vote of support for adding the ability to link items in chat
  • “Look for Group” status doesn’t update your level if your level increases after posting (retains the level you were when initially posted)
  • Consider this a vote to move forward with the Unity 2021 tech. In my limited experience, it seems to be an improvement in every way.
  • As a support class, it feels like I have to be standing ridiculously close to a group member to land a heal or buff. Please increase the radius of these spells.
  • I find myself not using certain spells due to the hassle of swapping them out on the action bar. Are there plans to add a second action bar (or at least the option thereof)? If not, how about some presets that can be toggled?
  • I like the ground cover in open areas. Just the right balance of grass, flowers, weeds, rocks, random ambient vegetation, etc.
  • Daytime lighting seems like it needs adjustment. Sometimes, trees in the distance seem so bright that their colors are washed out. Similarly, the shading on rocks is can feel extreme. This isn’t always the case, but here's an example:
    YnZpGHfF9uMOLNSAh-RHeW7LXXQp0N_9YgDh80yU69OF_Reyk15ly9volXnWAeTlW76jUMIL-SMcCPnG2rQ5XU1eh6nJPZ6k8SpgW8hDQbF68wERMkCvwcPWuuGbb-J7SmT0nSYeUbHLLw33ag

  • I love so many of the design decisions you’ve made. An example is zone transitions. I don’t know why, maybe it's simple nostalgia. But it’s a mechanic in and of itself, and one that adds to the enjoyment of the game. The tangible transition with brief loading screen gives each zone its own identity and touch.
  • I saw my first named mob and it was awesome. I couldn't have dreamed of fighting it without a lot more help though. I look forward to getting a roll of the dice against that loot table one of these days!
  • Transparent backgrounds of spell icons don’t look great over certain terrain such as grass
I'd like to be able to provide more feedback around bugs for you to squash, but I frankly haven't encountered many. Things are overall very smooth for a game in this stage of development.

Cheers! :cool:
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
I've mentioned several times in the few weeks since I discovered Embers Adrift how much it gets right and how much I'm enjoying playing. But that doesn't tell the whole tale. It occurred to me that perhaps to an equal degree what's bringing me back is the community. Nearly every time I log in, someone recognizes me and says hello. I'm routinely invited to group with people I know and everyone is uniformly warm and friendly. I've had the same experience on Discord and here in the forums. The devs are available, active, and consider all feedback with genuine objectivity. So kudos to the Embers Adrift community as a whole... you're doing more than you realize to help this game succeed.

I'd also be remiss if I didn't give a big shout-out to @Elloa. I can't imagine a better ambassador for your game or more powerful one-woman welcoming committee. I've enjoyed interacting with her in-game, on media platforms, and watching her Twitch/Youtube streams. Her kindness, knowledge, and enthusiasm for the game are infectious.
It's always great to hear what we are doing right :)

Allow me to add my vote of support for adding the ability to link items in chat
On the todo list for sure. I need to talk to a few people to see how much work would be involved.

“Look for Group” status doesn’t update your level if your level increases after posting (retains the level you were when initially posted)
This is a known "concession" we have made for simplicity's sake. Previously the LFG tool just had a level "range" but that range really wasn't doing as much good as the specific level. The quickest fix was to just send your current level - hooking things up to "update" that value on level change is a bit more work and was thrown on the back burner. You should be able to toggle LFG on then off to update the value for now.

Consider this a vote to move forward with the Unity 2021 tech. In my limited experience, it seems to be an improvement in every way.
We are getting there. I will likely move the team over within the next two weeks. But yes, overall everyone seems to have better performance!

As a support class, it feels like I have to be standing ridiculously close to a group member to land a heal or buff. Please increase the radius of these spells.
This has been something we have been iterating on for a long while now. That's not to say that we can't continue having this discussion - but the whole idea of the support class is that they are more of a "battle medic" running around the battle field keeping people healthy. It's already difficult enough to thematically explain how someone can apply first aid from 8 meters away (the current distance).

I find myself not using certain spells due to the hassle of swapping them out on the action bar. Are there plans to add a second action bar (or at least the option thereof)? If not, how about some presets that can be toggled?
The limited 6 action slots are a design choice that we feel forces you to make decisions on what abilities you want to have available to you at any given time. Presets would be a great QoL feature that we will consider down the road a bit.

Daytime lighting seems like it needs adjustment. Sometimes, trees in the distance seem so bright that their colors are washed out. Similarly, the shading on rocks is can feel extreme. This isn’t always the case,
Tree billboards (which is what you see rendered when trees are far off in the distance) are currently garbage and need a lot of love. We have some tech to improve them but it's a lot of tedious work getting them going - so it (like many other things) has been pushed to the back of the priority queue.

Transparent backgrounds of spell icons don’t look great over certain terrain such as grass
I can probably add a BG to that pretty quickly - will see if I can remember to do that for next week!
 

Meeks

Member
This has been something we have been iterating on for a long while now. That's not to say that we can't continue having this discussion - but the whole idea of the support class is that they are more of a "battle medic" running around the battle field keeping people healthy. It's already difficult enough to thematically explain how someone can apply first aid from 8 meters away (the current distance).
Because magic, that's how! This is actually great context and I suspected there was an explanation along these lines somewhere behind the design choice. I'm sure this has been explained elsewhere ad nauseum and you periodically have to explain things like this to n00bs like myself. But I appreciate you taking the time to do so. Perhaps heal effectiveness could scale with proximity to one's target to organically encourage this "battle medic" role you speak of, while still leaving an option for folks like myself who often find themselves attempting to heal a fleeing, critically-injured teammate.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
Because magic, that's how! This is actually great context and I suspected there was an explanation along these lines somewhere behind the design choice. I'm sure this has been explained elsewhere ad nauseum and you periodically have to explain things like this to n00bs like myself. But I appreciate you taking the time to do so. Perhaps heal effectiveness could scale with proximity to one's target to organically encourage this "battle medic" role you speak of, while still leaving an option for folks like myself who often find themselves attempting to heal a fleeing, critically-injured teammate.
Interestingly enough heals are more effective the lower health your target is. I know that's not what you are advocating for but I'm sure we don't make that very clear anywhere.
 

Meeks

Member
Interestingly enough heals are more effective the lower health your target is. I know that's not what you are advocating for but I'm sure we don't make that very clear anywhere.
That is good to know and makes perfect sense from a design standpoint.
 

Kaeolin

Well-Known Member
This has been something we have been iterating on for a long while now. That's not to say that we can't continue having this discussion - but the whole idea of the support class is that they are more of a "battle medic" running around the battle field keeping people healthy. It's already difficult enough to thematically explain how someone can apply first aid from 8 meters away (the current distance).
It's already too much range. If there is no magic, as you said, how am I apply to throw a bandage so far away. And before people say, I can move closer, again that's not the point. It wasn't hard before to position yourself to reach people. Now, I can stand back and shoot a crossbow, and still reach everybody. Might as well get rid of the bandaging animation and make it a Syringe (Morphine) so I can throw it like a dart.
 

RazorBrains

Active Member
And this is what happens when you remove magic from the game. Next people are going to question how you can even repair peoples health at all. Because in real life you cant instantly bring people to life. Geez some people are so inconsistent. They are fine with resurrections and throwing darts to heal but not heals from 10m away, like that makes sense.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
And this is what happens when you remove magic from the game. Next people are going to question how you can even repair peoples health at all. Because in real life you cant instantly bring people to life. Geez some people are so inconsistent. They are fine with resurrections and throwing darts to heal but not heals from 10m away, like that makes sense.
There's a balance to be struck between your suspension of disbelief and reality. No one is saying it's realistic to heal someone's health; this isn't real life, it's a video game. However, our vision of a battle medic is inspired by the lack of magic (one cannot "remove" something that never existed in the first place) which is why their heal range is a bit more limited than you might encounter in other games.

People are used to MMO play styles that include magic. We have no magic, hence our game doesn't always match player's expectations. And I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. But we can "fudge" some aspects a bit to make players feel a bit more at home while maintaining the "idea" of what we are going for - which is why we have iterated on the heal range and arrived at what it is today.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
They are fine with resurrections
I should also mention that there is no "death" in our game. You are simply knocked unconscious and mysteriously wake up without your bag at a hallow. There are reasons for this which have not yet been explored - and yes we typically refer to it as "death" because that's just the natural way to describe it. But at the end of the day, no one besides NPCs are actually dying out there.
 

Kaeolin

Well-Known Member
And this is what happens when you remove magic from the game. Next people are going to question how you can even repair peoples health at all. Because in real life you cant instantly bring people to life. Geez some people are so inconsistent. They are fine with resurrections and throwing darts to heal but not heals from 10m away, like that makes sense.
No, the next thing that happens is the game becomes a Wow clone. With all the recent changes, more and more people who bought into this game based on the original design plan are no longer playing. With regard to heals, it used to be required to be much closer to your target. You couldn't reach the entire group from one spot.

I don't have a problem suspending belief on things, but the current direction, with things being changed based on one or two people providing input, to make it more "FUN" is losing people. You can look and see the # of alpha players has dropped. Really seems like the design team has deviated from the original plan "Embers Adrift is a PvE MMORPG focused on group-based gameplay, exploration, and community. Inspired by experiences in tabletop games and early MMORPGs we aim to build a unique experience in today’s MMORPG market." (Taken from the FAQ Page).

It was my understanding that this game wasn't meant for everybody. You expected a Niche community to be playing, yet recently you've added more lighting to reduce the danger of night travel, You have simplified Crafting, made items and stats easier to understand. You've removed the challenge from the game and it no longer stands out from other MMO's as unique. It's just a game without magic.

Now, if this is all intended, in order to make the game successful, then it'll be up to those of us who are unhappy to decide if we want to continue. I've always wanted the studio to make the game they have envisioned.
 

RazorBrains

Active Member
Well lets just weigh this out some. When have I heard anyone even care about bandages, salves, tinctures, heal spells, medicine darts or anything like that as a reason not to like a game. A lot of time being wasted on complete NON ISSUES from someone that complains they lack time.

I will tell you what does come up all time time in practically every single group I have ever been in. Heal range being too short, the heal cone being to narrow.
These issues make healing feel clunky, and annoying.

Constraining yourself to realism is costing you a lot of time worrying about consistency. Whereas if you have magic in the game at all, then anything is possible. Just because magic is in a world doesn't force you to put in flying unicorns, lighting bolts from the sky or any other magic. It would allow people to explain why things happen that can otherwise not be explained.

What's next on the agenda? Run speed, bolas for stun, removing marshal roots, resurrections, full heals while in combat, group heals, yeah because they are so realistic as implemented.

You are saying you are going realistic, yet this game is so unrealistic. I mean I cant even hop a 2ft fence in this game. I think realism is already out the window. Focusing on game issues that really will make or break this game should be the focus. These tiny issues that almost nobody even cares about are just a massive distraction.
 

Kittik

Well-Known Member
No, the next thing that happens is the game becomes a Wow clone. With all the recent changes, more and more people who bought into this game based on the original design plan are no longer playing. With regard to heals, it used to be required to be much closer to your target. You couldn't reach the entire group from one spot.

I don't have a problem suspending belief on things, but the current direction, with things being changed based on one or two people providing input, to make it more "FUN" is losing people. You can look and see the # of alpha players has dropped. Really seems like the design team has deviated from the original plan "Embers Adrift is a PvE MMORPG focused on group-based gameplay, exploration, and community. Inspired by experiences in tabletop games and early MMORPGs we aim to build a unique experience in today’s MMORPG market." (Taken from the FAQ Page).

It was my understanding that this game wasn't meant for everybody. You expected a Niche community to be playing, yet recently you've added more lighting to reduce the danger of night travel, You have simplified Crafting, made items and stats easier to understand. You've removed the challenge from the game and it no longer stands out from other MMO's as unique. It's just a game without magic.

Now, if this is all intended, in order to make the game successful, then it'll be up to those of us who are unhappy to decide if we want to continue. I've always wanted the studio to make the game they have envisioned.
strongly agree....we got some very vocal people are causing changes to the "fun" of the game and making things happen faster to keep you in the action is a poor direction to take a game that can't do all that stuff as well as other game...keep going this way and you'll have a poorer preforming, uglier BDO.
 

RazorBrains

Active Member
No, the next thing that happens is the game becomes a Wow clone. With all the recent changes, more and more people who bought into this game based on the original design plan are no longer playing. With regard to heals, it used to be required to be much closer to your target. You couldn't reach the entire group from one spot.

I don't have a problem suspending belief on things, but the current direction, with things being changed based on one or two people providing input, to make it more "FUN" is losing people. You can look and see the # of alpha players has dropped. Really seems like the design team has deviated from the original plan "Embers Adrift is a PvE MMORPG focused on group-based gameplay, exploration, and community. Inspired by experiences in tabletop games and early MMORPGs we aim to build a unique experience in today’s MMORPG market." (Taken from the FAQ Page).

It was my understanding that this game wasn't meant for everybody. You expected a Niche community to be playing, yet recently you've added more lighting to reduce the danger of night travel, You have simplified Crafting, made items and stats easier to understand. You've removed the challenge from the game and it no longer stands out from other MMO's as unique. It's just a game without magic.

Now, if this is all intended, in order to make the game successful, then it'll be up to those of us who are unhappy to decide if we want to continue. I've always wanted the studio to make the game they have envisioned.
Well this slippery slope argument you are making is ridiculous. There is a long way from this game and a WoW clone. I don't think this game could even become a wow clone if it wanted too. But it can become a completely dead game. Is that what you want? Another completely failed game?

Lets see 10 guys in their basement on 1 hand, or 100million potential players?

Personally I would start sliding my way to towards those 100million. Seems like this game is holding firm moving to the 10 thou.

I will give you an example, look at Vrising just came out, they have darkness and shadows. They have some difficult mechanics associated with that mechanic, where staying in shadows is necessary but punished heavily if you don't. I see no issue with those kind of mechanics. At least you can see to play the actual game. The mechanic can be fun even when its difficult.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
Well lets just weigh this out some. When have I heard anyone even care about bandages, salves, tinctures, heal spells, medicine darts or anything like that as a reason not to like a game. A lot of time being wasted on complete NON ISSUES from someone that complains they lack time.

I will tell you what does come up all time time in practically every single group I have ever been in. Heal range being too short, the heal cone being to narrow.
These issues make healing feel clunky, and annoying.

Constraining yourself to realism is costing you a lot of time worrying about consistency. Whereas if you have magic in the game at all, then anything is possible. Just because magic is in a world doesn't force you to put in flying unicorns, lighting bolts from the sky or any other magic. It would allow people to explain why things happen that can otherwise not be explained.

What's next on the agenda? Run speed, bolas for stun, removing marshal roots, resurrections, full heals while in combat, group heals, yeah because they are so realistic as implemented.

You are saying you are going realistic, yet this game is so unrealistic. I mean I cant even hop a 2ft fence in this game. I think realism is already out the window. Focusing on game issues that really will make or break this game should be the focus. These tiny issues that almost nobody even cares about are just a massive distraction.
Did you even read my post my friend? I literally said "this isn't real life, it's a video game". Our design deviates from the "traditional" play style of a healer and you are basically telling me that is wrong. So we have to ask ourselves: is it clunky and annoying because players refuse to adapt to the change and they are expecting it to behave exactly like game X? Or is it actually clunky and annoying - and if so, what can be done to resolve that without just reverting back to "make it like game X".
 

RazorBrains

Active Member
strongly agree....we got some very vocal people are causing changes to the "fun" of the game and making things happen faster to keep you in the action is a poor direction to take a game that can't do all that stuff as well as other game...keep going this way and you'll have a poorer preforming, uglier BDO.
I think some people are actually trying to save this game from failure. Where other people don't even care if the game fails or not. They are focused on some idealistic points that are completely meaningless and if the game fails because of it o well.
 

Kaeolin

Well-Known Member
I never said I was going for realism. I said this is how it was, not how I want it to be. You are going to get a lot of complaints about things because it's NOT WOW. The was the intention. It is supposed to be more difficult. When I first started playing, I struggled, because I had to relearn how to play, both in groups and solo. Before, I couldn't solo much, because things were more difficult.

Yes, I realize they aren't going to fall into a "Wow Clone" category. That was a bit extreme. Just pointing out that it doesn't seem to have any features that make it stand out from other games now, whereas before it did.

If the decision to change this was a choice because of financial models, then fine. It's their game. I'm just providing my feedback about how I feel about the changes. It's not just me, even if they aren't providing feedback. I can't force anybody to provide feedback.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
causing changes to the "fun" of the game and making things happen faster to keep you in the action
Please be more specific about what you are talking about here. What change did we make that removes fun for the sake of making things happen faster to keep you in the action?
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
If the decision to change this was a choice because of financial models, then fine. It's their game. I'm just providing my feedback about how I feel about the changes. It's not just me, even if they aren't providing feedback. I can't force anybody to provide feedback.
You all need to get A LOT more specific on what changes we are making that you believe is literally turning the boat around and heading the game in a completely different direction. At this point I'm not even sure if we're talking about the same game?
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
If you are going to leave feedback that we are moving in the wrong direction you need to start getting get very specific on which changes you believe are doing that. Cut the bs, cut the rhetoric, don't tell me what you are "hearing" from a select few individuals, just tell me the decisions we have made that YOU believe are changing it for the worse and moving us towards a care bear facility.