From a DnD brain, small things that don't make sense...

[Brother0wl]

Got back into Embers after a lengthy hiatus for it to develop, and there are just some things that are puzzling that I wonder what the thought process was / is.

1. Crafted items - why would a merchant accept purchasing from me animal urine and rotting skin but not tin or copper armor I can make? If I loot something similar, I can sell it though. Why not have it be at a reduced price for a merchant that doesn't have a 'use' for it IE a cuirass going to a food / drink merchant, but maybe it's worth more to a smithy that could "theoretically" reuse components even if those components aren't purchasable.
2. Augments - if I attach some tin plating to a piece of armor for a buff, it shouldn't vanish. I'm still early into the game, don't know if the green bar above an item indicates the number of augments that can be added, but they should be permanent with the benefit of it being inherently worth more (even only slightly) to sell, but make it cost more to repair like a vehicle with aftermarket work done.
3. Armor weight limit - I'm hamstrung for using armor more geared for a marshal due to the consequential effect of all my stats being reduced, yet I have (and I could be wrong so please correct me if so) no means of passively increasing my weight limit other than a measly one pound per level, but I put on a tin shoulder plate that cripples me stat wise. Would it not make sense to be able to do something like Diablo 2 or ESO and have a simple stat system, let's say Strength - Stamina - and with magic being introduced, Will, and get like two points a level to add into whichever field to offset penalties and make our characters more efficient? It makes less sense considering there isn't an overall weight limit, a tank not being able to fully wear heavier armor without penalties, but I can load up my inventory with 15 swords / maces / axes doesn't compute.
4. Bag space - introduce a questline available every 10th level to increase bag space. Once again, maybe there is something that does this, and I haven't gotten there yet. Is there a bag system like EverQuest maybe? I don't know. I can hotkey in four things of food, why not include small packs to help with longer periods of adventuring? There's a separate bag for gathering components on top of that...
5. Zone involvement - the branching quests are cool, but smaller daily / weekly quests would also be cool. Does questing become more extensive? With all things said, I appreciated WoW regarding doing random things for people. You might be level 70 or 80, but if a bunch of rabid bears threaten a small town or camp, having some sort of task to help said community added to a feeling of altruism even if by then you have done it 100 times. Could having an interactive town message board like the Witcher 3 be possible?

I'm by no means hating on where Embers Adrift is at. Some might say just deal with where things are, and maybe some would like to see some quality-of-life things like this added. I don't know how to code; I don't know if stuff like this is difficult to amend or add. These ideas aren't grandiose, they are just common sense from an MMO point of view. Thank you to all that read these gripes, your time is appreciated!

 

[Undone]

Got back into Embers after a lengthy hiatus for it to develop, and there are just some things that are puzzling that I wonder what the thought process was / is.

Thanks for coming back to check us out!

1. Crafted items - why would a merchant accept purchasing from me animal urine and rotting skin but not tin or copper armor I can make? If I loot something similar, I can sell it though. Why not have it be at a reduced price for a merchant that doesn't have a 'use' for it IE a cuirass going to a food / drink merchant, but maybe it's worth more to a smithy that could "theoretically" reuse components even if those components aren't purchasable.

Crafted items are currently not sellable to minimize inflation. It is something we would like to revisit in the future but have had much bigger tasks to tackle such as content / systems /etc.

2. Augments - if I attach some tin plating to a piece of armor for a buff, it shouldn't vanish. I'm still early into the game, don't know if the green bar above an item indicates the number of augments that can be added, but they should be permanent with the benefit of it being inherently worth more (even only slightly) to sell, but make it cost more to repair like a vehicle with aftermarket work done.

Augments get used up to keep crafters in business and provide additional choices/decisions throughout the game. Players tend to keep gear for a long time in Embers Adrift so a permanent modification would mean that you only have to purchase a small stack of each type for the rest of your character's life - which we find less interesting for both the crafters who supply augments (eventually run out of people to sell to) and the player making decisions along the way (if augmenting is the obvious path then there really isn't a choice). Currently you can stack up to 5 (I think?) augments at one time on an item which will either expire through hits for weapons, or time in combat for armor.

3. Armor weight limit - I'm hamstrung for using armor more geared for a marshal due to the consequential effect of all my stats being reduced, yet I have (and I could be wrong so please correct me if so) no means of passively increasing my weight limit other than a measly one pound per level, but I put on a tin shoulder plate that cripples me stat wise. Would it not make sense to be able to do something like Diablo 2 or ESO and have a simple stat system, let's say Strength - Stamina - and with magic being introduced, Will, and get like two points a level to add into whichever field to offset penalties and make our characters more efficient? It makes less sense considering there isn't an overall weight limit, a tank not being able to fully wear heavier armor without penalties, but I can load up my inventory with 15 swords / maces / axes doesn't compute.

Without armor weight limits armor/clothing would need to be restricted by role/spec; as it stands now you can wear any piece of armor/clothing you like. Having weight limits increase as you level up also provides another progression path for the player unlocking more armor weight capacity as you level. We recognize this goes against the grain of most MMOs which have trained most of us to "see slot fill slot" - but we wanted to try something different.

4. Bag space - introduce a questline available every 10th level to increase bag space. Once again, maybe there is something that does this, and I haven't gotten there yet. Is there a bag system like EverQuest maybe? I don't know. I can hotkey in four things of food, why not include small packs to help with longer periods of adventuring? There's a separate bag for gathering components on top of that...

Our inventory system was written long ago when our design was very much focused on limited bag space. The idea was forcing players to make a choice on what they carry with them and what they keep during an adventure. It's not a huge hit with everyone so we've relaxed a bit (added the gathering bag, more slots, etc) - but the underlying system was not built to be extendable in the way most MMOs handle it via bigger bags (something that would require a significant rework). Not to mention inventory management is not one of our strengths so doubling down on a system that requires additional inventory management would just lead to more work that we unfortunately don't have time for right now. If I had to do it all over again I would likely take a different approach, but here we are.

5. Zone involvement - the branching quests are cool, but smaller daily / weekly quests would also be cool. Does questing become more extensive? With all things said, I appreciated WoW regarding doing random things for people. You might be level 70 or 80, but if a bunch of rabid bears threaten a small town or camp, having some sort of task to help said community added to a feeling of altruism even if by then you have done it 100 times. Could having an interactive town message board like the Witcher 3 be possible?

There is A LOT we can do here to improve the game world. There have also been a ton of great suggestions from the community that are all under some form of consideration. But as a small team our dev time is extremely limited so we have to be super picky about our priorities and managing our time. So to answer your question: yes, all of those things are possible, just not likely in the immediate future.

 

[MarcusFromOz]

For the love of all that is holy, unholy and anything inbetween, please do not create daily and weekly quests.
Its pandering to the simplicity of the failed MMO's of recent decades.

Six months ago, however, there was some discussion about making the current quests rerunnable at the cost of losing the reward you originally received.
I would LOVE that.
I forget what I did last time around the fishbowl, and doing the quests again would help others who are doing them the first time.

Points 1 to 4 have great merit but little urgency.

 

[Brother0wl]

For the love of all that is holy, unholy and anything inbetween, please do not create daily and weekly quests.
Its pandering to the simplicity of the failed MMO's of recent decades.

Six months ago, however, there was some discussion about making the current quests rerunnable at the cost of lost the reward you originally received.
I would LOVE that.
I forget what I did last time around the fishbowl, and doing the quests again would help others who are doing them the first time.

Points 1 to 4 have great merit but little urgency.

I fail to see how it's pandering in any way. Why not have an optional form of progression in the form of zone reputation? We get titles for killing boars and pigs, but if you complete X amount of quests in Y zone, why not have it unlock something unique to the zone. I see the ancient grizzly running around Northreach, you mean to tell me it's contributing to the failed simplicity of current MMOs to have some sort of weekly raid if the grizzly gets some buff that makes it more dangerous? Or patrols vulnerable areas like giants did in EQ? Rangers of Northreach first quest is killing 5x bears/boars/wolves, how is a weekly raid simpler than that?

The redo'ing of quests is interesting, but then you open up min maxing instead of enjoying the earned rewards as you go.

 

[Brother0wl]

Thanks for coming back to check us out!


Crafted items are currently not sellable to minimize inflation. It is something we would like to revisit in the future but have had much bigger tasks to tackle such as content / systems /etc.


Augments get used up to keep crafters in business and provide additional choices/decisions throughout the game. Players tend to keep gear for a long time in Embers Adrift so a permanent modification would mean that you only have to purchase a small stack of each type for the rest of your character's life - which we find less interesting for both the crafters who supply augments (eventually run out of people to sell to) and the player making decisions along the way (if augmenting is the obvious path then there really isn't a choice). Currently you can stack up to 5 (I think?) augments at one time on an item which will either expire through hits for weapons, or time in combat for armor.


Without armor weight limits armor/clothing would need to be restricted by role/spec; as it stands now you can wear any piece of armor/clothing you like. Having weight limits increase as you level up also provides another progression path for the player unlocking more armor weight capacity as you level. We recognize this goes against the grain of most MMOs which have trained most of us to "see slot fill slot" - but we wanted to try something different.


Our inventory system was written long ago when our design was very much focused on limited bag space. The idea was forcing players to make a choice on what they carry with them and what they keep during an adventure. It's not a huge hit with everyone so we've relaxed a bit (added the gathering bag, more slots, etc) - but the underlying system was not built to be extendable in the way most MMOs handle it via bigger bags (something that would require a significant rework). Not to mention inventory management is not one of our strengths so doubling down on a system that requires additional inventory management would just lead to more work that we unfortunately don't have time for right now. If I had to do it all over again I would likely take a different approach, but here we are.


There is A LOT we can do here to improve the game world. There have also been a ton of great suggestions from the community that are all under some form of consideration. But as a small team our dev time is extremely limited so we have to be super picky about our priorities and managing our time. So to answer your question: yes, all of those things are possible, just not likely in the immediate future.

Halving the price of crafted items being sold would help mitigate inflation concerns, or allow a limit of, I don't know, 10 crafted items being sold a day as an example. It's just weird to have disease skin and decent armor being something you can sell vs. not sell. Hell, if inflation is that much of a concern, have something like a church to donate to for a buff IE "Thank you for your patronage adventurer! Your donation of 20 silver is greatly appreciated. I am more than happy to grant you a gift for your further adventures!" Then select from a corresponding buff like you get from the fireflies. Call these people Priest of the Embers.

The augments thing makes sense, but once again, being able to sell excess people make to just skill up a profession offsets having too much of something no one is buying. Or have something like crafting stronger augments by combining a certain amount of the base one if you have the recipe.

The armor weight explanation doesn't really address my point. Why have one if I can carry 20 axes with no recourse? And why have classes designated with roles that already restrict yourself to roles? The armor weight and surpassing it for a penalty makes sense I suppose but the penalty is overbearing. My character is wearing a combo of leather and tin, 60/60 armor weight, but have probably five open armor slots. There is nothing inherently wrong with 'see slot fill slot'. In off hours when you can't find a group to do a dungeon, having the appropriate gear to take on higher level mobs with not a full group helps with the satisfaction someone gets playing an MMO. Hopefully, and I understand this is probably distant future thinking, if there is a plan for end game content, which I sure hope so because that is what keeps a community, what good is it to have your tanks wearing half leather armor, getting slapped around, and not being able to finish the content on account the armor penalties hinder you. Or maybe the level progression evens things out, but not everyone is level 50.

I guess the idea of having a limit of small packs in the main inventory to give you two or three more slots is a tall ask, I wouldn't have guessed since I don't know how to code. I hope this quality-of-life thing gets some traction, forcing players to something that seems more of a hinderance. Appealing to a niche MMO audience is tough enough, but some things in the MMO world just make sense.

I am glad that the community is brainstorming ideas for immersion. I was just thinking of something to go with the theme of when people gather around a fire to heal, something like a message board near it is a good way to bring lone players together. I pray things keep coming together for the team, and in time Embers will be in full stride. Rome wasn't built in a day, but the core concepts in the game already are great.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my post!

 

[MarcusFromOz]

I fail to see how it's pandering in any way. Why not have an optional form of progression in the form of zone reputation? We get titles for killing boars and pigs, but if you complete X amount of quests in Y zone, why not have it unlock something unique to the zone. I see the ancient grizzly running around Northreach, you mean to tell me it's contributing to the failed simplicity of current MMOs to have some sort of weekly raid if the grizzly gets some buff that makes it more dangerous? Or patrols vulnerable areas like giants did in EQ? Rangers of Northreach first quest is killing 5x bears/boars/wolves, how is a weekly raid simpler than that?

The redo'ing of quests is interesting, but then you open up min maxing instead of enjoying the earned rewards as you go.

Most of what you are saying I agree with.

I don't, however, want to see it that someone that logs in 7 days per week for an hour gets a benefit compared to someone who logs in for 7 hours on one day per week.
Daily quests just feel like the manipulation of people to force them into habits, and should be shot into Blupiter.

Weekly quests could be ok, as long as the quests are not things like: log in 4 times during the week.

I don't think we are all that different in our opinions.
A reputation system tied to a housing system, a fishing system etc etc would be ok, if handled well.

I just don't want people logging in and saying: "Sorry I can't group, I need to knock off these 20 daily quests, again, then if I have time we can have some fun".

 

[Brother0wl]

Most of what you are saying I agree with.

I don't, however, want to see it that someone that logs in 7 days per week for an hour gets a benefit compared to someone who logs in for 7 hours on one day per week.
Daily quests just feel like the manipulation of people to force them into habits, and should be shot into Blupiter.

Weekly quests could be ok, as long as the quests are not things like: log in 4 times during the week.

I don't think we are all that different in our opinions.
A reputation system tied to a housing system, a fishing system etc etc would be ok, if handled well.

I just don't want people logging in and saying: "Sorry I can't group, I need to knock off these 20 daily quests, again, then if I have time we can have some fun".

I agree with not having it set up as such where it takes away from the core element of the game and grouping. However, there will always be the more hardcore people that play and more casual players. I think having a 'report based' system would be cool. Where one player person zone stumbles on some kind of 'activity' like some exiles have been seen tampering with magic (when that system comes out soon) and you report it to whatever head person at the main camp in the zone, then the head honcho puts a notice or bounty on the message board that opens up the additional quest to all eligible people. Hard cap it at three of these quests a week or whatever, but have them focused on going through areas meant to be grouped, or mobs meant to be taken down in teams. That way you avoid the 20 "kill whatever" daily quests. Also make the level requirements have a max so 50's aren't coming in and are less likely to ruin the fun.

Just my idea!

 

[Undone]

The armor weight explanation doesn't really address my point. Why have one if I can carry 20 axes with no recourse? And why have classes designated with roles that already restrict yourself to roles? The armor weight and surpassing it for a penalty makes sense I suppose but the penalty is overbearing. My character is wearing a combo of leather and tin, 60/60 armor weight, but have probably five open armor slots. There is nothing inherently wrong with 'see slot fill slot'. In off hours when you can't find a group to do a dungeon, having the appropriate gear to take on higher level mobs with not a full group helps with the satisfaction someone gets playing an MMO. Hopefully, and I understand this is probably distant future thinking, if there is a plan for end game content, which I sure hope so because that is what keeps a community, what good is it to have your tanks wearing half leather armor, getting slapped around, and not being able to finish the content on account the armor penalties hinder you. Or maybe the level progression evens things out, but not everyone is level 50.

The armor weight system is just a different way to restrict what certain roles can wear while also allowing them the freedom to kind of "break" those rules from time to time. Strikers for example are intended to wear light armor. However, as a striker if you really want to wear a chain chest piece or a plate bracer, we allow for that at the cost of sacrificing some of your other slots. It's a little meta game of balancing different pieces of gear and seeing how you can maximize protection/stats while staying under or at your armor weight. The penalty is harsh because we don't intend for you to exceed your limit unless you are ok with those penalties. We couldn't prevent you from equipping the gear otherwise you'd have a difficult time swapping gear in and out; not to mention we'd be asking you to do a ton of extra math in your head - it's much easier just to equip a piece of gear and see how far over you've gone at which point you can sort of estimate how much you have to level before it can fit within the limts.

I agree that nothing is inherently wrong with "see slot fill slot" - but that's not how we designed our system. And because our system is different, there is a natural friction with folks who are accustomed to "see slot fill slot". As you level you unlock more armor weight which allows you to fill more slots. Defender's get the most armor weight allowance so high level tanks can easily adorn a full set of plate armor without issue. It varies by base role and specialization - with some specs being more "tank" focused meaning they get a higher armor weight allowance.