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Focused Discussion : EQUIPMENT (crafted, dropped)

Elloa

Administrator
Stormhaven Studios
Elloa - 117.png


FOCUSED DISCUSSION: EQUIPMENTS (Crafted & dropped)

Hello friends!

This discussion is aimed to gather in one single thread all wishes and thoughts related to EQUIPMENTS.
I would like to welcome in this serie of discussions both Alpha/Beta testers that play our game regularly, but also everyone else that have some opinions regarding the subject.

Please, try to keep your answers concise and precise, to make it easier for our team to follow.

DISCLAIMER
Equipment is in an iteration process. Many changes have happened during the last weeks, and more may to come. Your opinion on the subject and your feedback very much matter.

Our intention:
  • Crafter feels useful. Crafting is meaningful and require effort
  • Finding loot is exciting. Players are happy to hunt for equipment.
  • Hunting and finding equipment is a satisfying experience that requires players to cooperate, explore and venture the world.

Currently: basic crafted item < dropped item < imbued crafted item < rare mob item


LET’s SPEAK
  • CRAFTED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view, what do you think on the matter. What makes crafting equipment valuable. How does it not interfere with the fun of finding a dropped item?
  • DROPPED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view. How is it exciting to find new items? What makes it a boring, unexciting aspect of the game?
  • BIND OR NOT BIND: What are the pro and con of BOE/BOD items? What are the pro and con on NOT having a BOE/BOD system. What system can be put in place instead to avoid a devaluation of the items over time.



Thank you for your participation.
 
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Xavure

Active Member
  • CRAFTED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view, what do you think on the matter. What makes crafting equipment valuable. How does it not interfere with the fun of finding a dropped item?
    • As a crafter, I think crafting is essential to a game like this. Since last week, crafting is getting better and better, however there's still some work to be done.
    • First of all, cluthering and bag space: Weaponsmith and Provisionner, atm needs a lot of space, because there is so many sub-components. IMO, either simplify the components to make the crafts or add some more bag/bank space.
    • I like the vision for item drops/crafting, however I would add the last row: basic crafted item < dropped item < imbued crafted item < rare mob item < imbued/enhanced rare mob item by crafters (will have to see if the sharpening stone/armor padding does that)
  • DROPPED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view. How is it exciting to find new items? What makes it a boring, unexciting aspect of the game?
    • The amount of dropped items seems too high for uncommun gear atm. We can pretty much gear a whole group in almost one play session of NNH Exile camp for example. Same goes for all other camps i've been in.
    • If the uncommon drops would have a lower rate, than the basic crafting gear would be more useful.
    • The rare drops seems fine atm, however I would like to see more bosses. (Big ass Bosses)
    • I would personnally add a Legendary type system, to have the extremely rare items, but that everyone reconize when the see it. That would add a OH Yeah look what this player has on him....kinda thing.
  • BIND OR NOT BIND: What are the pro and con of BOE/BOD items? What are the pro and con on NOT having a BOE/BOD system. What system can be put in place instead to avoid a devaluation of the items over time.
    • I prefer BOD on extremely rare only and BOE on everything else. This make trading more valuable and remove gear from circulation.
    • Unrestricted type of system, make the game boring for lowbies sometimes, cause high level player will often gave gears to those and that for me break immersion.
    • I hate a system where the gear is removed when broken and you need to farm it again. It's painful and not fun.
 

MrDDT

Active Member
  • CRAFTED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view, what do you think on the matter. What makes crafting equipment valuable. How does it not interfere with the fun of finding a dropped item?
    • As a crafter, I think crafting is essential to a game like this. Since last week, crafting is getting better and better, however there's still some work to be done.
    • First of all, cluthering and bag space: Weaponsmith and Provisionner, atm needs a lot of space, because there is so many sub-components. IMO, either simplify the components to make the crafts or add some more bag/bank space.
    • I like the vision for item drops/crafting, however I would add the last row: basic crafted item < dropped item < imbued crafted item < rare mob item < imbued/enhanced rare mob item by crafters (will have to see if the sharpening stone/armor padding does that)
  • DROPPED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view. How is it exciting to find new items? What makes it a boring, unexciting aspect of the game?
    • The amount of dropped items seems too high for uncommun gear atm. We can pretty much gear a whole group in almost one play session of NNH Exile camp for example. Same goes for all other camps i've been in.
    • If the uncommon drops would have a lower rate, than the basic crafting gear would be more useful.
    • The rare drops seems fine atm, however I would like to see more bosses. (Big ass Bosses)
    • I would personnally add a Legendary type system, to have the extremely rare items, but that everyone reconize when the see it. That would add a OH Yeah look what this player has on him....kinda thing.
  • BIND OR NOT BIND: What are the pro and con of BOE/BOD items? What are the pro and con on NOT having a BOE/BOD system. What system can be put in place instead to avoid a devaluation of the items over time.
    • I prefer BOD on extremely rare only and BOE on everything else. This make trading more valuable and remove gear from circulation.
    • Unrestricted type of system, make the game boring for lowbies sometimes, cause high level player will often gave gears to those and that for me break immersion.
    • I hate a system where the gear is removed when broken and you need to farm it again. It's painful and not fun.

^^^ This is exactly how I feel, every word. ^^^


I want to add I also feel like a lot of items do not feel like impactful upgrades. Going from a dropped common to an imbued crafted almost feels like no change. Now going from an imbued crafted to a named drop feels good. I feel like it was worth winning the roll and getting it. However, going out of my way to buy/trade/craft/gather from a common drop to an imbued doesn't feel worth it and doesn't feel like I even made much of a change at all.

A lot of items in the game are like this too.

I got an +8% STA regen belt and you can't even see the difference. People were asking "Does it work on in combat regen, or only on out of combat or the other way around" no one could tell me because no one knows if it is even doing anything.

Everyone also tells me from food and tea, that "Oh don't waste using that in a group" why? because its just not a big deal to use these things. I think these things (and other items) seem to be just not of a major effect of how well they help.
 

Ragnar

New Member
  • CRAFTED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view, what do you think on the matter. What makes crafting equipment valuable. How does it not interfere with the fun of finding a dropped item?
    Crafting is a primary focus of some players. Gathering of materials is also a strong basis for economies in many games. Many crafters seek to perfect their craft, be the first to craft the best gear, often being a guild crafter and supplied materials by the guild to accomplish the goal and give the guild an edge. That said, the crafting system looks and feels far from complete. Issues like there being no benefit to using the T2 flux instead of the T1 flux. No one knowing if there is even T3 flux in game yet. T1 rings being better than T2 rings. Secondary components not mattering as to tier, such as no difference in using T1 or T2 leather strapping in making plate armor pieces. Add to that the fact that the bonuses added are so minimal on the crafted items that they aren't even really sought after. It is much better to get a +15 group buff or stand in front of a mob for +30 to hit instead of hunting for hours to get the flux to make jewelry to give a whole +6 to hit. With the damage numbers used for weapon damage and other combat variables, the tiny bonuses on 100% quality crafted gear are not even truly recognizable. Take the lookout staff, it gives +15 to hit, a noticeable bonus. It would take a lot of crafted gear to equal that bonus if you even could. In the T1 to T2 range, which that staff falls into, the jewelry can only offer a maximum of +6 to hit. There are still many rough areas of the crafting to be worked on in my opinion. Currently, for most players, seeking crafted gear isn't worth the time to gather the said materials. That will only become worse as more players are in the game vying for the very limited gatherable resources a few folks can keep a zone like SNH fairly well depleted of ore or another commodity. What will it be like with 30-50 folks seeking the same materials in the same zone.

    As for dropped items, you have the leeway to make them exciting and far different from crafted items. You can make them with differing combinations of bonuses that make them stand out from crafted items. Even something as simple as a different look can make an item very desirable among players. But currently, there is no real excitement over the dropped loot. Folks know where to go to get the item they want. Each class has specific bosses they need to hunt to get class specific gear. You will quickly find those areas overrun with players standing around looking for things to kill as there is no reason to kill the other mobs as they can't drop anything the players want. It isn't excitement, folks are like 'finally, got the staff, we can get out of here now' and on to the next gear drop they need. Also, I feel, the fact that there is no variance in the items at all also lessens the excitement. Looking at the staff again, always being a static +15 to hit makes it boring and routine. If it was +10-15 to hit and maybe +0-3 penetration or something would make a +15 to hit +3 penetration staff highly sought after and give that mob more reason to be hunted seeking that perfect drop. These items would also greatly help drive an economy. Variables on the crafted items would also be wonderful as the fact that every person making 100% items makes the exact same item with absolutely no variations or chance for variations really makes the crafting rather boring. It also means folks aren't hunting for that perfectly crafted item either and really lessens the economic impact of crafting to me.

    I also feel the gathering system, while a good concept, lacks the amount of materials to support any real number of players and lacks the excitement that a very rare node drop can generate.

    DROPPED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view. How is it exciting to find new items? What makes it a boring, unexciting aspect of the game?

    When every thief's sword is identical, they aren't exciting. When you know what mob to hunt until you get that pair of boring Thief's Blades that strikers want at low levels as they are simply best in slot it makes getting them a small grind, nothing exciting or provocative. It is essentially no different than looking for flux from a shoat. You aren't excited you got them, you are relieved because now you can go hunt something else that may be more entertaining. Crafting 100s of rings just to destroy them to level up outfitting isn't exciting in the least. It is tedious and boring. The fact that making a copper ring that takes 1 ingot grants the same crafting experience as a metal chest piece that takes 3 ingots and 2 leather strips means everyone will just be grinding rings to level as it is simply the most efficient and only requires one resource gathering skill. Also, if you aren't the top tier player in the game tackling uncharted mobs and zones, there really won't be any excitement for drops as they are as you are just going to be following an established road map of drops for the class you are playing that have been figured out by the front runners on the server. The lack of variation or randomness applied to the items tends to remove that excitement. I have often, in other games, got a drop and been excited to get the drop and evaluate it even when the random stats made it not a truly desirable item for use. You just say 'darn, lost the lotto on that one' and hunt on. The excitement when you get that truly rare perfect stat or nearly perfect stat item is awesome and even resonates across the whole group.

    BIND OR NOT BIND: What are the pro and con of BOE/BOD items? What are the pro and con on NOT having a BOE/BOD system. What system can be put in place instead to avoid a devaluation of the items over time.

    Well, from what I have heard, you were seeking realism in the game. Neither of these systems off that in any way. A better way to do it would be to set a target level for optimal use for an item. Say a sword, to get 100% use out of it, including damage and stat benefits, you needed to be level 20. A level 1 could still use it, just would get significantly less benefit out of it and it may not be as good as some weapons designed for their level.

    All said, at the end of the day, the crafting and loot system, like all aspects of the game, should be fun and enjoyable. If the game isn't, your players will fade away quickly and seek more enjoyable games to play.

    These are my opinions from my years of gaming. That doesn't make the correct or perfect. At the end of the day, this is the game the developers are making and as I am not privy to their ultimate goals and desires in the end game development of Embers Adrift, I can only make my best suggestions. I hope it helps and thank you for your efforts in making the game. I think you folks are working hard and desire to make a great game and that is why I am involved in this Beta, to assist with that concept. Keep up the great work.
 
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Keld57

Member
Never been a big crafter but I have been working on in this game. The above comments are very accurate for me. Bag space is an issue depending on what you choose as a profession. I also find the recipes are too vague and i end up guessing at the components. I find the new change to having to use flux to make anything of use is going to make me think twice. I was on hunting and gathering for awhile this weekend and had 1 drop. If that is just my bad RnG i can live with that but generally it was kind of a waste of my time to craft.
Since I do not know what the plan is for end game and if raids or just high end dungeons, will the gear that drops bet best quality or just common stuff. I all ways feel that the hardest mobs or bosses to kill should have the best gear. If it is going to be all crafted then the desire to kill the hardest content more than once is taken away for me. It is it is the reward for defeating the hardest content or I can just craft and get the best gear. In EQ the Dragons dropped the molds and you can get the other parts or buy them and anyone could make that worked for me.

Once again I am not a big crafter and never have been so just my thoughts
 

Kaeolin

Well-Known Member
^^^ This is exactly how I feel, every word. ^^^

I want to add I also feel like a lot of items do not feel like impactful upgrades. Going from a dropped common to an imbued crafted almost feels like no change. Now going from an imbued crafted to a named drop feels good. I feel like it was worth winning the roll and getting it. However, going out of my way to buy/trade/craft/gather from a common drop to an imbued doesn't feel worth it and doesn't feel like I even made much of a change at all.

A lot of items in the game are like this too.

I got an +8% STA regen belt and you can't even see the difference. People were asking "Does it work on in combat regen, or only on out of combat or the other way around" no one could tell me because no one knows if it is even doing anything.

Everyone also tells me from food and tea, that "Oh don't waste using that in a group" why? because its just not a big deal to use these things. I think these things (and other items) seem to be just not of a major effect of how well they help.
I find myself agreeing with DDT more often than not lately. I agree with everything Xavure said. I additionally point out what DDT says about not knowing what is working and what isn't. I don't get the reason behind placing everything server side so we can't see what's going on. You end up being a button masher and hoping for the best outcome at the end.
 

xenjuro

Active Member
Being a long time MMORPG player like most of you, I’ve witnessed the evolution of equipment acquisition as the years have gone by. Starting off as a bit more archaic and inspired by table top rpgs, it’s since been streamlined to the point where equipment is not as much the reward for discovery and instead has become a conveyor belt continuously feeding player character growth. The further a player ventures into an MMORPG, the more detached from the world equipment acquisition becomes.

In addition, the uniqueness of the equipment has been blurred significantly such that many players simply see most of the equipment as a “stat stick”, meaning that it serves no functional purpose aside from increasing a character’s stats. In many mmorpgs, there’s functionally no difference between gauntlets and a ring or a helmet and a belt. They only differ in the amount of stats they provide.

I suppose this is a long winded way to say that equipment should be exciting to acquire and be functionally meaningful. The streamlined systems of modern mmorpgs pretty much kill this into blandness, leaving players to look elsewhere for their excitement, which is a shame.

With this in mind, here’s some ideas I have about equipment. They may not fit with Embers Adrtift’s design and some may be far too late into the game's development to even consider, but I present the ideas nonetheless.

Continuous replacement is terrible
Equipment becomes less meaningful if you end up having to replace it often. It also nurtures a a rat race mentality where you’re more focused on getting that next upgrade instead of enjoying the game’s content. Furthermore, it definitely feels like a let down when that cool weapon you earned from the dungeon boss gets replaced by some standard baseline weapon a few levels later. Instead, let’s return to the roots of unique and rare equipment being something awesome that sticks with you throughout your entire character’s lifespan (or until a better rare item comes along).

Item Level
A piece of equipment’s efficacy in performing their intended purpose is affected by its item level. Simply put, the higher a piece of equipment’s item level, the better it’ll perform. The higher item level of a breastplate will increase the amount/% of physical damage reduction while the higher item level of a sword will increase the damage that it does.

Intended Purpose
Instead of equipment simply being stat sticks, pieces of equipment should have specific purposes. For example, a steel breastplate should really only provide defense against physical attack. It shouldn’t increase one’s strength, dexterity, or intelligence (as stat examples). Some equipment, like rings, would provide more magical benefits as a ring really does not provide much in the form of physical benefit.

Stats, by and large, should only increase through leveling and temporary buffs. Very rarely should equipment increase stats and only a single stat at that. Let equipment only do what the equipment was designed to do. Anything more should be exceedingly rare and not the norm.

Of course, there is the “magical equipment” argument that would say a piece of gear could be magically enhanced to make that ring increase one’s armor or strength or whatever. All I can say is that line of thinking is what leads to gear becoming stat sticks and boring. It should be used sparingly so that a magical item is exciting to acquire instead of the fact that it is a magical piece of equipment being completely overlooked.

Equipment Categories
Equipment should be bundled into different categories based on their intended purpose. Each category can then have slightly different rules regarding efficacy and item level. Some basic categories would be:
  • Armor - gear that you wear that’s intended to reduce incoming damage
    • Helmet, Shoulders, Chest, Hands, Legs, and Feet
  • Utility - gear that provides some type of special ability or benefit.
    • Amulets, Rings, earrings, cloaks, belts
  • Weapons - gear that enables and/or enhances your damage dealing/healing
    • Swords, staves, daggers, etc.
  • Baubles - gear that you don’t generally wear that provides powerful, unique abilities with lengthy cooldowns
    • Magic imbued gems, rabbit’s foot, gryphon feather, etc.

Armor type Trade Off
In tandem with intended purpose, different armor types should also provide different benefits. It’s initially easy to see that a steel breastplate would provide more physical damage defense than a cloth tunic. Looking solely at that benefit, there would be no reason to wear a cloth tunic over a steel breastplate. But, what if there was a tradeoff? What if the cloth tunic provided a better chance to dodge, a higher movement speed, or more defense against magic? The basic idea is that every armor type should have advantages and disadvantages.

Gear Lifecycle
As said above, continual gear replacement based on character level is poor design. Upgrading gear should be a big deal. As item level increases, the opportunity to upgrade decreases. With that in mind there should be an item level range that should be considered a “common standard”, meaning that this item level is something every player can expect to achieve without having to rely on the luck of rare drops. Up until this common standard, replacing gear could be a bit more rapid, but once they’ve reached the common standard, upgrades slow down significantly as they are only acquired through rare drops.

Currently, crafted gear would be this common standard. A full set of this gear would mean an adventurer has what they need to meet nearly all content challenges. In other terms, they would no longer be under geared.

So from a life cycle standpoint, gear that is at this common standard item level and above is intended to last indefinitely on the character and cannot be outleveled while gear below this common standard is intended to be replaced regularly.

Item Level tiers
With a sliding item level scale, we can create tiers based on acquisition source. I’d place them something like this in order of lowest to highest:
  • Common drops from common mobs - the equipment dropped by common “trash” mobs. Better than not having anything equipped, but terrible quality. This equipment would be the most abundant in the game and would be the predominant way to gear up for very early levels.
  • Equipment made by PC crafters - This should be what pretty much every new character wants to attain as soon as possible. Its item level is sufficient to tackle most content for the character’s level. It’s that quality made, no frills stuff that sticks with an adventure their entire life. Acquisition should be somewhat of a journey and definitely not something trivial to obtain.
  • Rare Equipment obtained from rare monsters - This is the largest area where quality rating can vary. The equipment is rare to come by and should always be better than the respective crafting piece. Other rare equipment of the same slot might be a higher item level but due to its rarity the rate of replacement still remains relatively low.
  • Equipment made by PC crafters with rare ingredients - Think of that rare ore only available at the bottom of a deep dungeon or that fang from the dragon you just slew. A crafter could use these to create exceptional gear. This equipment would generally be better than rare drops (but not always). This gear would also not be available to sell. Mechanisms in place would allow a player who acquired the material to be the only one allowed to receive the resulting gear.
  • Epic equipment obtained from “big boss” encounters - Only a select few mobs would drop this level of loot and will not always drop. Only a handful of items would be available. Not to be confused with the way games like WoW does epic loot where each boss has an entire table of epic loot. Instead, these bosses would have exactly 1 epic loot piece that does not always drop. More commonly these bosses would be good sources for rare ingredients for the previous tier, but there’d always be that special chance of something truly epic.
  • Legendary equipment - These items are truly unique in that only 1 of them exist per server. Highest level. Acquisition methods are not completely straightforward and almost always not just a small % chance to drop. There would be methods in place to allow the passing of the legendary to another worthy player and not allow the item to languish on an inactive character.


Item Level inflation
When new content in an mmorpg is released, it tends to be a little more difficult in terms of damage output and requirements. This leads to new gear being available to meet that gap. This type of inflation should be exceedingly rare if not avoided altogether as it leads to an arms race mentality. Adventurers become worried about acquiring more gear. Crafters now have a bunch of new recipes they have to learn and craft. All the older rare material crafting becomes less desirable. It changes the nature of the game. Instead, new content should just increase the number of gear available at the rare drop and higher tiers.

Bound Gear
With the above outlined, I definitely lean toward a conservative approach to gear proliferation, particularly gear at a rare or higher item level tier. The less rare gear in the world, the more exciting it is for players to acquire it (assuming the acquisition methods are reasonable and not astronomically draconian). Players should never be able to buy their way to rare gear. This only applies to gear above the common standard. Everything below and including the common standard should never be bound. Players can sell that gear to their heart’s content. Let players sell the crafted gear they’ve made or purchased and even have used (at perhaps a slightly lower item level so as not to compete with newly crafted pieces).

Anything beyond the common standard is bound immediately upon acquisition. The only exception to this would be similar to wow’s 2 hour trade grace window where a typically bound piece of gear can be traded to anyone else who was present at its looting within a certain window of time.

Obsolete Rare Gear
I’d not implement any type of “recycle” systems that incentivize the repeated acquisition of rare items. An example of this would be deconstructing a rare item into crafting material or having the rare item sell at a merchant for a valuable price. Systems like this will always be exploited by people mainly interested in making money in the game, especially if the content is not instanced and is persistent. It ultimately cheapens the rare gear acquisition experience.

Conclusion
My apologies if this post wasn’t very cohesive. I just had a number of interlocking ideas that I couldn’t quite organize well enough. If I had to TL;DR this it’d go like this:
  • Keep rare equipment truly rare and exciting to acquire regardless of the character’s level
  • Allow a widely accessible pathway for players to get their gear “up to par”
  • Do not allow rare gear to be sold or recycled
  • Stick to a common standard item level

Thank you for your time.
 

MrDDT

Active Member
I love what is posted above, however, I think some of those systems are massive overhaul of what is currently set up.
 
Being a long time MMORPG player like most of you, I’ve witnessed the evolution of equipment acquisition as the years have gone by. Starting off as a bit more archaic and inspired by table top rpgs, it’s since been streamlined to the point where equipment is not as much the reward for discovery and instead has become a conveyor belt continuously feeding player character growth. The further a player ventures into an MMORPG, the more detached from the world equipment acquisition becomes.

In addition, the uniqueness of the equipment has been blurred significantly such that many players simply see most of the equipment as a “stat stick”, meaning that it serves no functional purpose aside from increasing a character’s stats. In many mmorpgs, there’s functionally no difference between gauntlets and a ring or a helmet and a belt. They only differ in the amount of stats they provide.

I suppose this is a long winded way to say that equipment should be exciting to acquire and be functionally meaningful. The streamlined systems of modern mmorpgs pretty much kill this into blandness, leaving players to look elsewhere for their excitement, which is a shame.

With this in mind, here’s some ideas I have about equipment. They may not fit with Embers Adrtift’s design and some may be far too late into the game's development to even consider, but I present the ideas nonetheless.

Continuous replacement is terrible
Equipment becomes less meaningful if you end up having to replace it often. It also nurtures a a rat race mentality where you’re more focused on getting that next upgrade instead of enjoying the game’s content. Furthermore, it definitely feels like a let down when that cool weapon you earned from the dungeon boss gets replaced by some standard baseline weapon a few levels later. Instead, let’s return to the roots of unique and rare equipment being something awesome that sticks with you throughout your entire character’s lifespan (or until a better rare item comes along).

Item Level
A piece of equipment’s efficacy in performing their intended purpose is affected by its item level. Simply put, the higher a piece of equipment’s item level, the better it’ll perform. The higher item level of a breastplate will increase the amount/% of physical damage reduction while the higher item level of a sword will increase the damage that it does.

Intended Purpose
Instead of equipment simply being stat sticks, pieces of equipment should have specific purposes. For example, a steel breastplate should really only provide defense against physical attack. It shouldn’t increase one’s strength, dexterity, or intelligence (as stat examples). Some equipment, like rings, would provide more magical benefits as a ring really does not provide much in the form of physical benefit.

Stats, by and large, should only increase through leveling and temporary buffs. Very rarely should equipment increase stats and only a single stat at that. Let equipment only do what the equipment was designed to do. Anything more should be exceedingly rare and not the norm.

Of course, there is the “magical equipment” argument that would say a piece of gear could be magically enhanced to make that ring increase one’s armor or strength or whatever. All I can say is that line of thinking is what leads to gear becoming stat sticks and boring. It should be used sparingly so that a magical item is exciting to acquire instead of the fact that it is a magical piece of equipment being completely overlooked.

Equipment Categories
Equipment should be bundled into different categories based on their intended purpose. Each category can then have slightly different rules regarding efficacy and item level. Some basic categories would be:
  • Armor - gear that you wear that’s intended to reduce incoming damage
    • Helmet, Shoulders, Chest, Hands, Legs, and Feet
  • Utility - gear that provides some type of special ability or benefit.
    • Amulets, Rings, earrings, cloaks, belts
  • Weapons - gear that enables and/or enhances your damage dealing/healing
    • Swords, staves, daggers, etc.
  • Baubles - gear that you don’t generally wear that provides powerful, unique abilities with lengthy cooldowns
    • Magic imbued gems, rabbit’s foot, gryphon feather, etc.

Armor type Trade Off
In tandem with intended purpose, different armor types should also provide different benefits. It’s initially easy to see that a steel breastplate would provide more physical damage defense than a cloth tunic. Looking solely at that benefit, there would be no reason to wear a cloth tunic over a steel breastplate. But, what if there was a tradeoff? What if the cloth tunic provided a better chance to dodge, a higher movement speed, or more defense against magic? The basic idea is that every armor type should have advantages and disadvantages.

Gear Lifecycle
As said above, continual gear replacement based on character level is poor design. Upgrading gear should be a big deal. As item level increases, the opportunity to upgrade decreases. With that in mind there should be an item level range that should be considered a “common standard”, meaning that this item level is something every player can expect to achieve without having to rely on the luck of rare drops. Up until this common standard, replacing gear could be a bit more rapid, but once they’ve reached the common standard, upgrades slow down significantly as they are only acquired through rare drops.

Currently, crafted gear would be this common standard. A full set of this gear would mean an adventurer has what they need to meet nearly all content challenges. In other terms, they would no longer be under geared.

So from a life cycle standpoint, gear that is at this common standard item level and above is intended to last indefinitely on the character and cannot be outleveled while gear below this common standard is intended to be replaced regularly.

Item Level tiers
With a sliding item level scale, we can create tiers based on acquisition source. I’d place them something like this in order of lowest to highest:
  • Common drops from common mobs - the equipment dropped by common “trash” mobs. Better than not having anything equipped, but terrible quality. This equipment would be the most abundant in the game and would be the predominant way to gear up for very early levels.
  • Equipment made by PC crafters - This should be what pretty much every new character wants to attain as soon as possible. Its item level is sufficient to tackle most content for the character’s level. It’s that quality made, no frills stuff that sticks with an adventure their entire life. Acquisition should be somewhat of a journey and definitely not something trivial to obtain.
  • Rare Equipment obtained from rare monsters - This is the largest area where quality rating can vary. The equipment is rare to come by and should always be better than the respective crafting piece. Other rare equipment of the same slot might be a higher item level but due to its rarity the rate of replacement still remains relatively low.
  • Equipment made by PC crafters with rare ingredients - Think of that rare ore only available at the bottom of a deep dungeon or that fang from the dragon you just slew. A crafter could use these to create exceptional gear. This equipment would generally be better than rare drops (but not always). This gear would also not be available to sell. Mechanisms in place would allow a player who acquired the material to be the only one allowed to receive the resulting gear.
  • Epic equipment obtained from “big boss” encounters - Only a select few mobs would drop this level of loot and will not always drop. Only a handful of items would be available. Not to be confused with the way games like WoW does epic loot where each boss has an entire table of epic loot. Instead, these bosses would have exactly 1 epic loot piece that does not always drop. More commonly these bosses would be good sources for rare ingredients for the previous tier, but there’d always be that special chance of something truly epic.
  • Legendary equipment - These items are truly unique in that only 1 of them exist per server. Highest level. Acquisition methods are not completely straightforward and almost always not just a small % chance to drop. There would be methods in place to allow the passing of the legendary to another worthy player and not allow the item to languish on an inactive character.


Item Level inflation
When new content in an mmorpg is released, it tends to be a little more difficult in terms of damage output and requirements. This leads to new gear being available to meet that gap. This type of inflation should be exceedingly rare if not avoided altogether as it leads to an arms race mentality. Adventurers become worried about acquiring more gear. Crafters now have a bunch of new recipes they have to learn and craft. All the older rare material crafting becomes less desirable. It changes the nature of the game. Instead, new content should just increase the number of gear available at the rare drop and higher tiers.

Bound Gear
With the above outlined, I definitely lean toward a conservative approach to gear proliferation, particularly gear at a rare or higher item level tier. The less rare gear in the world, the more exciting it is for players to acquire it (assuming the acquisition methods are reasonable and not astronomically draconian). Players should never be able to buy their way to rare gear. This only applies to gear above the common standard. Everything below and including the common standard should never be bound. Players can sell that gear to their heart’s content. Let players sell the crafted gear they’ve made or purchased and even have used (at perhaps a slightly lower item level so as not to compete with newly crafted pieces).

Anything beyond the common standard is bound immediately upon acquisition. The only exception to this would be similar to wow’s 2 hour trade grace window where a typically bound piece of gear can be traded to anyone else who was present at its looting within a certain window of time.

Obsolete Rare Gear
I’d not implement any type of “recycle” systems that incentivize the repeated acquisition of rare items. An example of this would be deconstructing a rare item into crafting material or having the rare item sell at a merchant for a valuable price. Systems like this will always be exploited by people mainly interested in making money in the game, especially if the content is not instanced and is persistent. It ultimately cheapens the rare gear acquisition experience.

Conclusion
My apologies if this post wasn’t very cohesive. I just had a number of interlocking ideas that I couldn’t quite organize well enough. If I had to TL;DR this it’d go like this:
  • Keep rare equipment truly rare and exciting to acquire regardless of the character’s level
  • Allow a widely accessible pathway for players to get their gear “up to par”
  • Do not allow rare gear to be sold or recycled
  • Stick to a common standard item level

Thank you for your time.
The only thing I don't agree with is removing stats from gear.
 
CRAFTED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view, what do you think on the matter. What makes crafting equipment valuable. How does it not interfere with the fun of finding a dropped item?
I found the crafting system in its current state to be mundane and unrewarding. I was more likely to keep the items I started with before replacing them with crafted ones.
LIKES
nodes(different tiers)
nodes (reasonably spaced and amount)
tools (different tiers)

Dislikes
nodes (not zone specific)
nodes (don't provide flux and rares)
items (unrewarding/not worth the effort)
crafting trainer (need to be easier to identify compared to other assets)
recipes (no new recipes acquired during crafting process)

DROPPED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view. How is it exciting to find new items? What makes it a boring, unexciting aspect of the game
Items continue to be consistent
Do not randomize stats
Specific mob/boss has chance to drop specific items from list
The look of item is consistent and unique
include chance certain rare/epic crafting material has chance to drop from boss
Boss is linked to epic quest (e.g. EQ epic quest)
Certain dungeon requires criteria to be met before entering like a key

BIND OR NOT BIND: What are the pro and con of BOE/BOD items? What are the pro and con on NOT having a BOE/BOD system. What system can be put in place instead to avoid a devaluation of the items over time.
In my opinion anything other than quest items and end game items should be BoE
This will bolster the economy
It is also going to create “Farmers” (I have nothing against farmers just making it known)
This will attract players to the game (competition)
 
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Vante

New Member
  • CRAFTED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view, what do you think on the matter. What makes crafting equipment valuable. How does it not interfere with the fun of finding a dropped item?
  • DROPPED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view. How is it exciting to find new items? What makes it a boring, unexciting aspect of the game?
    • I think we have to establish how much of an important role do you wish crafting to play in your game? I feel this has to be distinct and clear early on in design. Crafting has proven to be a strong source of entertainment for many types of players out there having lead to it's own genre of game entirely, so you could argue it's importance with that alone (i.e. Minecraft, Ark, etc.). That being said however, how important this feature of the game plays a role will greatly dictate how this game is played. For example, if we look at provisioners alone for moment. Current food/drink models are sort of unnecessary or rather "nice to haves" instead of needed. That will make the life of said crafter difficult with little to no demand for their products. Instead imagine a hunger and thirst meter that dictates your natural regen of health and stamina. Now a depleted meter won't kill you (or maybe it will after extended time), but everyone playing knows stamina is life with combat encounters and additional health regen is a benefit everyone wants. This change suddenly makes provisioners invaluable. They would be in high demand and recipes can have varying effects of fullness based on quality, or even extended duration for complex recipes. This isn't a new idea obviously, and it's just serving as an example of how crafting can play a huge role in the game. Do I want the struggles of survival games in my MMORPG? Certainly not, but an element like that isn't quite apples to apples either. I don't want to spend even more than 5% of a single game session worrying about food. However, given the theme of the game so far, it's not ridiculous to think it should be a feature of concern for players. But enough on that single feature topic, my point of the example was to expand our thinking a bit about crafting general. Another example, and I could directly quote Xenjuro's previous post. "In tandem with intended purpose, different armor types should also provide different benefits." Lighter armor could provide static bonus to combat movement or even reduce attack speed (careful there) because of it's intended purpose. Heavier armor is pretty straight forward with damage mitigation, with maybe different types of heavy armor models offering +dodge or +AC flavorings. Medium armor is the middle ground, but honestly could be completely ignored in my opinion. If I wanted middle ground, I'd rather augmentation fill that gap like using flux or the like could offer. I don't feel like I have to explain the demand for outfitters in comparison like I did the provisioners, but giving options thru crafting is the point of the example. With the current model you explained, "Currently: basic crafted item < dropped item < imbued crafted item < rare mob item", it's a functional system but a little too simple in my opinion. In Xenjuro's previous post he explains how basic crafted items should be a new player's immediate priority. I don't disagree with that, but I would like for them to have an option that doesn't involve crafting either if they don't want to. With that in mind, perhaps a conception change is in order? The first tier would be "Basic crafted item/Common Drop Items" with only varying slightly with minimal benefits. Moving on to the next tier, another combination would be involved. Imbued crafted item/Rare Mob Item could be combined in the same category easily enough especially if you have mobs dropping the main material for said imbue. It should be a shared ingredient across multiple recipes as well, so groups can hunt together for it. This leaves rooms for a final third tier, Big Boss/Raid drops. These should be significant in every way, from special models or even particle effects. I personally think mobs of this scale should be very difficult, and with loot tables that offer each class a flavor, but not all at once. One kill, one drop, with long random interval respawns. To sum up this topic, crafting gear can be fun, crafting gear with rare resources can be fun, but getting that perfect drop with your friends/guildies is king.
  • BIND OR NOT BIND: What are the pro and con of BOE/BOD items? What are the pro and con on NOT having a BOE/BOD system. What system can be put in place instead to avoid a devaluation of the items over time.
    • Binding is necessary to keep a stable economy for players, we've already seen how this plays out without it in previous MMORPGs. Despite the pros/cons, it is necessary. However, it doesn't mean it cannot be improved upon. Referring again to Xenjuro's previous post (we seem to share common opinions, and he did post first), common drops and common crafted items should be free traded, as they won't have a significant impact past the first few levels. That said, the deconstruction process can play a roll there to help keep the market from being flooded. Instead of getting a base material back, they get "scraps" which can be used at interim in later recipes. Instead of focusing on if we should have it, since already knowing the answer to that question, let's make a broader focus to the topic. What items do we not want flooding the market or recirculating? That will make it easier to evaluate what should bind or not. Now visit for a moment the concept we spoke above with the higher tier items. In regards to binding, I think we should consider limiting how many of these items can be bound. Much like how we limit armor weight for balance, we could limit high tier binds as well. Think about D&D for a moment, you have a limit of how many magical items you can attune to use. Some you can unattune easy enough, but some are much more difficult and/or costly. This forces players to make a choice based on their needs and reduce the capacity for farming specific items. I know it's a simple idea, and can be expanded upon for sure, but it's just an example of expanding our thinking a bit of traditional binding methods we've seen many times before.
 

Asbo

Well-Known Member
Undone giveth with one hand and taketh with the other!

Many of my thought are already well written above and I feel the current changes have gone to far the other way. Until it's flushed out I am refraining from any further comments until the flux issues is dealt with and implemented as intended.
I am losing the FUN factor after each change and this is having an effect on whether I will continue contributing!!!
One of my biggest concerns is it does not matter how many times I play a new character, the experience is the same each time no matter what class I play. No matter what crafting-gathering skills I choose it all feels the same and repetitive, with no change to the end result.
 

Xeen

Member
  • Crafter feels useful. Crafting is meaningful and require effort
  • Finding loot is exciting. Players are happy to hunt for equipment.
  • Hunting and finding equipment is a satisfying experience that requires players to cooperate, explore and venture the world.

Currently: basic crafted item < dropped item < imbued crafted item < rare mob item

-Getting ANY item and making use of your armor weight budget and/or inventory slot is huge compared to having nothing (0 to tier 1 junk even)

-Going to the next tier from 1 to 2 is DOUBLING your stats, then subsequent tiers are relatively smaller increases with linear patterns to things like AC and dice rolls (1d5 to 2d5 = double damage, next tier 3d5 = 50% more damage than 2d5, then 4d5 = relatively 33% increase from 3d5 and so on, similar pattern to armor values, yes I know the + value increases slightly and gives a little more)

-Currently some imbued items are dead even or a micro improvement with dropped items, I am aware this is intended to change

-The gap between basic crafted and dropped items is huge vs a tiny gap between dropped and imbued, finally followed by a large and/or specialized gap to rare drops (but it should be this way to rares, they are very difficult to obtain). I think there should be a more even spacing between basic to dropped to imbued such that basic unskilled crafted slot fillers are about 50% effectiveness compared to basic skilled crafted at 66% effectiveness relative to dropped. Dropped would be the baseline '100%'. Imbued should be about 33% better than dropped. Rares are special items that mostly defy the trends and/or have special bonuses on the items that aren't typically found from crafting. With tiny integers, rounding becomes a significant issue in balancing item stats.


LET’s SPEAK
  • CRAFTED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view, what do you think on the matter. What makes crafting equipment valuable. How does it not interfere with the fun of finding a dropped item?

    Crafter: I should be able to make the best items short of rare-drops such that people are willing to spend the time to gather materials and track me down to have items made, not equivalent or micro-upgrade compared to drops vs the effort involved in training a craft and gathering high level and/or rare materials like flux.

    Non-crafter: It needs to be worth my time to go through the tedious process of gathering materials, finding a crafter, meeting up with them, discussing options, and figuring out which pieces of equipment with what combination of materials and flux are worth crafting. A huge improvement to the non-crafter side would be to give access to the 'recipe box' system ahead of time so that we know exactly what we want to make, seeing the end results AND all the types and tiers of materials required to make the item ahead of time before even speaking to a crafter. Knowing that you need or want an item crafted is difficult without knowing what CAN be crafted.

    Crafting may be less relevant at early levels (0-20) due to high rate of progress and ease of access to drops vs difficulty of crafting, then extremely relevant at mid levels until end-game (20 to 50), and then obsolete once end-game is reached and players are only hunting for rare drop from named mobs.


  • DROPPED ITEMS: From crafters and non crafters point of view. How is it exciting to find new items? What makes it a boring, unexciting aspect of the game?

    Hunting for drops could yield 'damaged' items or components that require a crafter to complete instead of handing out ready-to-go items. This would involve both the hunting and the crafting aspect, saving the non-crafter effort on collecting materials (in the case of simply repairing a damaged item)

    The biggest excitement should be hunting for rare spawns, which seem incredibly rare but do have a guaranteed drop. For the most part, dropped loot is good as is. Some enemies aside from rare/named mobs are very limited in quantity, location, and even time (may only spawn at night). When you consider finding a semi-rare enemy, competing with other players for tags, and then the very low chance of getting 'an' item from them, then the even lower chance of getting 'the' item you want from them..... 'ughhh' is what comes to mind. Furthermore, we don't even know the full loot tables of various spawns or if hunting the right target, so you could be hunting for an impossible drop!

  • BIND OR NOT BIND: What are the pro and con of BOE/BOD items? What are the pro and con on NOT having a BOE/BOD system. What system can be put in place instead to avoid a devaluation of the items over time.

    Maybe allow players the CHOICE to bind an item:
    An unbound item can be traded, of course.
    A bound item receives a stat bonus in exchange for becoming untradeable.

    For the most part, binding should occur at the account level, not the player level, to allow transfer of basic gear as hand-me-downs to alts. Some gear is class-specific anyway.
    Named drops could potentially be BoE, but I'd rather not.

    I do not want a Bind on Drop? (Is that the term here? I usually hear BoP - pickup) system where an item is immediately bound to a player upon receipt to inventory. This causes problems as looting often occurs during combat or discussions take place during looting and if there are any changes of mind, accidents, miscommunications, etc. it would then be impossible to trade the item or require GM intervention and you don't want that!

    Overall, I'm against a 'binding' system of any kind, especially if the sole purpose is to make crafting relevant and constant. This game isn't really that style and binding doesn't solve the issue of the crafter loop, merely delays it a bit if anything. Consumables and decay are the way to go for maintaining crafter involvement, not that I want my gear to break and require constant replacement....

    In the big picture: At some point, item saturation occurs and crafting or even rare hunting becomes obsolete (that's it, game over man!). Maybe there are plans I don't know about, but you never solve keeping crafters constantly involved in the game making equipment when equipment is not lost from the economy. Again, you can delay saturation with a binding system and making items cost more to craft, etc etc, but saturation will occur unless new gear crafted 'IN' matches gear decay and losses 'OUT'. simple economics

    The bigger question is 'Why should crafters always be relevant?' To me crafting is a means to an end and a great way to fill in the gaps as needed or obtain specific items and bonuses, and at some point, crafting is no longer going to be required. I'm okay with that.
 

gamealot

New Member
Being a long time MMORPG player like most of you, I’ve witnessed the evolution of equipment acquisition as the years have gone by. Starting off as a bit more archaic and inspired by table top rpgs, it’s since been streamlined to the point where equipment is not as much the reward for discovery and instead has become a conveyor belt continuously feeding player character growth. The further a player ventures into an MMORPG, the more detached from the world equipment acquisition becomes.

In addition, the uniqueness of the equipment has been blurred significantly such that many players simply see most of the equipment as a “stat stick”, meaning that it serves no functional purpose aside from increasing a character’s stats. In many mmorpgs, there’s functionally no difference between gauntlets and a ring or a helmet and a belt. They only differ in the amount of stats they provide.

I suppose this is a long winded way to say that equipment should be exciting to acquire and be functionally meaningful. The streamlined systems of modern mmorpgs pretty much kill this into blandness, leaving players to look elsewhere for their excitement, which is a shame.

With this in mind, here’s some ideas I have about equipment. They may not fit with Embers Adrtift’s design and some may be far too late into the game's development to even consider, but I present the ideas nonetheless.

Continuous replacement is terrible
Equipment becomes less meaningful if you end up having to replace it often. It also nurtures a a rat race mentality where you’re more focused on getting that next upgrade instead of enjoying the game’s content. Furthermore, it definitely feels like a let down when that cool weapon you earned from the dungeon boss gets replaced by some standard baseline weapon a few levels later. Instead, let’s return to the roots of unique and rare equipment being something awesome that sticks with you throughout your entire character’s lifespan (or until a better rare item comes along).

Item Level
A piece of equipment’s efficacy in performing their intended purpose is affected by its item level. Simply put, the higher a piece of equipment’s item level, the better it’ll perform. The higher item level of a breastplate will increase the amount/% of physical damage reduction while the higher item level of a sword will increase the damage that it does.

Intended Purpose
Instead of equipment simply being stat sticks, pieces of equipment should have specific purposes. For example, a steel breastplate should really only provide defense against physical attack. It shouldn’t increase one’s strength, dexterity, or intelligence (as stat examples). Some equipment, like rings, would provide more magical benefits as a ring really does not provide much in the form of physical benefit.

Stats, by and large, should only increase through leveling and temporary buffs. Very rarely should equipment increase stats and only a single stat at that. Let equipment only do what the equipment was designed to do. Anything more should be exceedingly rare and not the norm.

Of course, there is the “magical equipment” argument that would say a piece of gear could be magically enhanced to make that ring increase one’s armor or strength or whatever. All I can say is that line of thinking is what leads to gear becoming stat sticks and boring. It should be used sparingly so that a magical item is exciting to acquire instead of the fact that it is a magical piece of equipment being completely overlooked.

Equipment Categories
Equipment should be bundled into different categories based on their intended purpose. Each category can then have slightly different rules regarding efficacy and item level. Some basic categories would be:
  • Armor - gear that you wear that’s intended to reduce incoming damage
    • Helmet, Shoulders, Chest, Hands, Legs, and Feet
  • Utility - gear that provides some type of special ability or benefit.
    • Amulets, Rings, earrings, cloaks, belts
  • Weapons - gear that enables and/or enhances your damage dealing/healing
    • Swords, staves, daggers, etc.
  • Baubles - gear that you don’t generally wear that provides powerful, unique abilities with lengthy cooldowns
    • Magic imbued gems, rabbit’s foot, gryphon feather, etc.

Armor type Trade Off
In tandem with intended purpose, different armor types should also provide different benefits. It’s initially easy to see that a steel breastplate would provide more physical damage defense than a cloth tunic. Looking solely at that benefit, there would be no reason to wear a cloth tunic over a steel breastplate. But, what if there was a tradeoff? What if the cloth tunic provided a better chance to dodge, a higher movement speed, or more defense against magic? The basic idea is that every armor type should have advantages and disadvantages.

Gear Lifecycle
As said above, continual gear replacement based on character level is poor design. Upgrading gear should be a big deal. As item level increases, the opportunity to upgrade decreases. With that in mind there should be an item level range that should be considered a “common standard”, meaning that this item level is something every player can expect to achieve without having to rely on the luck of rare drops. Up until this common standard, replacing gear could be a bit more rapid, but once they’ve reached the common standard, upgrades slow down significantly as they are only acquired through rare drops.

Currently, crafted gear would be this common standard. A full set of this gear would mean an adventurer has what they need to meet nearly all content challenges. In other terms, they would no longer be under geared.

So from a life cycle standpoint, gear that is at this common standard item level and above is intended to last indefinitely on the character and cannot be outleveled while gear below this common standard is intended to be replaced regularly.

Item Level tiers
With a sliding item level scale, we can create tiers based on acquisition source. I’d place them something like this in order of lowest to highest:
  • Common drops from common mobs - the equipment dropped by common “trash” mobs. Better than not having anything equipped, but terrible quality. This equipment would be the most abundant in the game and would be the predominant way to gear up for very early levels.
  • Equipment made by PC crafters - This should be what pretty much every new character wants to attain as soon as possible. Its item level is sufficient to tackle most content for the character’s level. It’s that quality made, no frills stuff that sticks with an adventure their entire life. Acquisition should be somewhat of a journey and definitely not something trivial to obtain.
  • Rare Equipment obtained from rare monsters - This is the largest area where quality rating can vary. The equipment is rare to come by and should always be better than the respective crafting piece. Other rare equipment of the same slot might be a higher item level but due to its rarity the rate of replacement still remains relatively low.
  • Equipment made by PC crafters with rare ingredients - Think of that rare ore only available at the bottom of a deep dungeon or that fang from the dragon you just slew. A crafter could use these to create exceptional gear. This equipment would generally be better than rare drops (but not always). This gear would also not be available to sell. Mechanisms in place would allow a player who acquired the material to be the only one allowed to receive the resulting gear.
  • Epic equipment obtained from “big boss” encounters - Only a select few mobs would drop this level of loot and will not always drop. Only a handful of items would be available. Not to be confused with the way games like WoW does epic loot where each boss has an entire table of epic loot. Instead, these bosses would have exactly 1 epic loot piece that does not always drop. More commonly these bosses would be good sources for rare ingredients for the previous tier, but there’d always be that special chance of something truly epic.
  • Legendary equipment - These items are truly unique in that only 1 of them exist per server. Highest level. Acquisition methods are not completely straightforward and almost always not just a small % chance to drop. There would be methods in place to allow the passing of the legendary to another worthy player and not allow the item to languish on an inactive character.


Item Level inflation
When new content in an mmorpg is released, it tends to be a little more difficult in terms of damage output and requirements. This leads to new gear being available to meet that gap. This type of inflation should be exceedingly rare if not avoided altogether as it leads to an arms race mentality. Adventurers become worried about acquiring more gear. Crafters now have a bunch of new recipes they have to learn and craft. All the older rare material crafting becomes less desirable. It changes the nature of the game. Instead, new content should just increase the number of gear available at the rare drop and higher tiers.

Bound Gear
With the above outlined, I definitely lean toward a conservative approach to gear proliferation, particularly gear at a rare or higher item level tier. The less rare gear in the world, the more exciting it is for players to acquire it (assuming the acquisition methods are reasonable and not astronomically draconian). Players should never be able to buy their way to rare gear. This only applies to gear above the common standard. Everything below and including the common standard should never be bound. Players can sell that gear to their heart’s content. Let players sell the crafted gear they’ve made or purchased and even have used (at perhaps a slightly lower item level so as not to compete with newly crafted pieces).

Anything beyond the common standard is bound immediately upon acquisition. The only exception to this would be similar to wow’s 2 hour trade grace window where a typically bound piece of gear can be traded to anyone else who was present at its looting within a certain window of time.

Obsolete Rare Gear
I’d not implement any type of “recycle” systems that incentivize the repeated acquisition of rare items. An example of this would be deconstructing a rare item into crafting material or having the rare item sell at a merchant for a valuable price. Systems like this will always be exploited by people mainly interested in making money in the game, especially if the content is not instanced and is persistent. It ultimately cheapens the rare gear acquisition experience.

Conclusion
My apologies if this post wasn’t very cohesive. I just had a number of interlocking ideas that I couldn’t quite organize well enough. If I had to TL;DR this it’d go like this:
  • Keep rare equipment truly rare and exciting to acquire regardless of the character’s level
  • Allow a widely accessible pathway for players to get their gear “up to par”
  • Do not allow rare gear to be sold or recycled
  • Stick to a common standard item level

Thank you for your time.
Agree strongly with most of this. Best items should be crafted…and require drops from some mobs Or hard to get special nodes buried in dungeons. Once you build this web of interconnectedness between drops/nodes/crafting you have a working economy in the game and it makes ALL drops more interesting because your cash is now important so you can buy things from crafters and/or the special items crafters need. Eq2 crafting did this very very well and it had a great economy in-game and crafting was very rewarding. Using drops as the crafting “spice” keeps those interesting too IMO.

jim
 

innosa

Member
Dropped Items/Crafted Items

Armor/Weapon Diversity
The best way is to make it so everyone can look different from another based on their luck on what items they found or won through rolls or by their choices on what gear they decide to use. Or maybe they just like to look a certain way and make those gear choices. Making gear all be almost similar in their item level but having different stats to challenge the players into wearing a diverse set would be ideal. For example there might be a breastplate that offers 50 armor but 20 penetration vs. a breastplate that offers 25 armor but 70 damage. They sit at the same value but it's up to the players to decide which will give them more of an edge and it can be different based on the situation. Heck throw in a breastplate that offers no stats but it has a special equipped effect like it absorbs a flat 25 damage. As a defender you might want that 25 absorb against multiple but weaker enemies that only do 25 damage per hit but then you would swap to a 50 armor 20 penetration armor when a 3 chevron boss mob comes at you since 25 absorb won't do much to protect from his blows. It's great to see everyone wearing a different assortment of armor pieces and using different weapons they believe to help them through their own experiences.

Bind or Not Bind
I would say have bind on equip and bind on pickup items. I haven't seen any problems with this old system.

Inventory
I do like the limited bank and bag space. It eliminates hoarding and also has players decide on rolling for items they are really going to use not just leave in the bank to collect dust. Limited bank and bag space eliminates this sort of way of playing.
 

Valkon

New Member
Such great feedback and thoughts, hard to disagree with any of them. /Adds 2cp to the pot.

Personally, I'm a bit disappointed with crafting in that you get all the recipies at once and everyone has the same ones. There is nothing that distinguishes one level 20 crafter from another level 20 crafter. It would be exciting to instead have just a few base recipies to start and earn others as drops and to have different styles at higher levels. Like a weaponsmith may start out being able to make a dagger or club and find recipies for short swords, basic staves, etc. Then at level 5 or whatever learn how to make larger weapons and/or bows, at level 10 make more exotic weapons, and so on with equivalent recipe drops. Simply making the same weapons, equipment, and etc. but using different materials feels very unrewarding and as it stands now with the rarity of flux, I find that there really is no point to crafting and would rather just farm mobs for exp and gear.

As for mob drops, when everyone is running around in the same dropped gear, there is a certain blandness and little individuality. Dyes may help with that, but all in all, a bit more variety may help -- no real difference between function just cosmetic. For example a falchion and a scimitar may provide the same dps just have a different look.

There are arguments for and against BOE/BOD. I prefer BOE/BOD but not against the lack thereof.
 
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Asbo

Well-Known Member
Please do not make items BIND on pickup/equip this is another reason I stopped playing eq when you paying a monthly fee and start restricting what you can and not wear it brings disappointment to the experience. For me anyway, this and bag/bank space is a red flag for me which games have no need to restrict. I get that bag space has restriction on bandwidth data usage but it's things which frustrate me in games.
I'd also like to see you elaborate the deconstruct button and give a chance or materials dropping depending on the level and your skills to decide how many or what materials you get back if any! Rather than one hit fits all sell trash.
 

Ragnar

New Member
I personally feel that a crafting system should be engaging, has some form of excitement or engagement and in the end, have at least some aspects of it be useful and desired in the game by other players. Not necessarily the best, but still useful and giving the crafting system a reason to be pursued at all.

That said, I find systems with little or no depth, no variability and utilizing the simple unlock all the recipes at level up to be boring, uninspiring and just unenjoyable.

I have heard the variables aren't wanted as it is just gambling. Well, so is every time you kill a mob. Why do folks camp the wolves? For the 'gamble' of getting the good loot. No one wants to just go kill a mob and get the rare drop every time. It lessens the value of the items and strips the play from the game. Well, that concept applies to the crafting as well.