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Feedback First Timer's May 4th Test Feedback

is this feedback?

Meeks

Member
Greetings! I'm brand new to the game and wanted to provide some feedback on my first playtest. I realize much of what I describe may be redundant and well-covered here by others with solutions already on the roadmap. Nonetheless, here are some things that stood out to me:
  • First and foremost, the game is a blast! You really nailed the combat and atmosphere. Well done! I am a proud backer at this point.
  • I’d like a longer beard option to really nail my grizzled old wizard look! (Hey, this is important!)
  • I played briefly in the test event last weekend and found the nighttime darkness to be much better last night by comparison. I saw some folks in chat bemoaning the lighter night sky and implore you to not listen to these crazy people! It’s’ possible to create a believable nighttime feel without leaving players blind and you're very close to achieving that.
    • On that note, please add a Brightness slider to the Video options. I sense mine needed adjusting.
  • I sure would appreciate a player marker on the map. Seeing fellow groupmates on the map would also be great (yes, I realize I find them using the arrow around their group portrait).
  • It's sometimes hard to see the target marker in tall grass - I suggest either raising it a bit or adding a third dimension (height) to the marker to increase visibility
  • Why does nobody seem to use the LFG tool? It's fantastic and I give you major props for having this tool built at this stage of development. I’ve mostly had to spam chat to get anywhere with grouping though.
  • Performance was a little stuttery upon logging in but became much smoother a moment afterward… it remained very smooth all evening. Definitely an improvement over last weekend's performance!
  • Is it possible to vary the duration of a bear’s stun based on a resist roll or something? I think it was 7 seconds each time and it felt disproportionately punishing. Maybe that's a result of my gear and level (or lack thereof)?
  • Can you change it to automatically turn off auto-attack after defeating an enemy? I keep accidentally attacking things when I target them immediately following an encounter.
  • Please add a compass!
  • When hovering over loot, I would appreciate a pop-up description of the currently-equipped item in that slot for quick comparison. Not wanting to seem overly greedy in groups, several times I clicked Greed on something I actually really needed because I didn't have adequate time to assess things.
  • Thank you for not including PvP. There are plenty of PvP-focused games out there and not enough that make PvE the star of the show!
  • I'm an old-school EverQuest player and no MMO has ever come close to topping it, in my humble opinion. It sure feels like at least one person on the team shares my affinity for that great old game.
  • I read the patch notes but couldn't figure out how to manually go AFK. Typing /afk didn't do the trick.
  • I much prefer a first-person perspective with the option to switch to third-person to view my character. Any chance of adding a first-person option?
  • I'd like the ability to opt-in on allowing folks to inspect me (or opt out).
Thanks for creating such a great game. It's fun, it values social interaction, it's challenging, and it isn't mired in complex sub-systems/rules that ruin the fun-factor like basically every other MMO out there these days. Please don't let the inevitable onslaught of whiners cause you to lose sight of that vision. Keep it up!
 

MrDDT

Active Member
  • I read the patch notes but couldn't figure out how to manually go AFK. Typing /afk didn't do the trick.
Hit O for social and its on the pull down top right.

  • Can you change it to automatically turn off auto-attack after defeating an enemy? I keep accidentally attacking things when I target them immediately following an encounter.
Default key is ` (left of the 1 key)
You can rebind it (I have it set to Q)
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
Heya Meeks thanks for taking the time to leave this feedback. Glad to have scratched that itch a bit for ya!

  • I played briefly in the test event last weekend and found the nighttime darkness to be much better last night by comparison. I saw some folks in chat bemoaning the lighter night sky and implore you to not listen to these crazy people! It’s’ possible to create a believable nighttime feel without leaving players blind and you're very close to achieving that.
The nights are currently a bit over exposed, but I do agree that nights can exist without leaving the player blind. That's the goal.

  • I sure would appreciate a player marker on the map. Seeing fellow groupmates on the map would also be great (yes, I realize I find them using the arrow around their group portrait).
This is unlikely to ever happen for a few reasons. The primary reason is that the in-game maps are not geographically accurate (by design) so putting a player marker on them wouldn't quite work.

  • It's sometimes hard to see the target marker in tall grass - I suggest either raising it a bit or adding a third dimension (height) to the marker to increase visibility
The ground marker needs some love for sure. Right now we're in the midst of upgrading engines which changes how decals work (which is what we use for the ground targeting reticle) so hopefully a few new avenues will open up.

  • Why does nobody seem to use the LFG tool? It's fantastic and I give you major props for having this tool built at this stage of development. I’ve mostly had to spam chat to get anywhere with grouping though.
I think some of the reasons come down to the UI being a tad "busy" and the existence of a global chat channel. As we added features the UI got a bit more crowded which likely turns players off from using it. The global chat channel serves a similar function with a more immediate impact so that also diverts attention away from the LFG tool. The global channel was added to facilitate the beta test so it's still unclear if it will be kept through launch.

  • Is it possible to vary the duration of a bear’s stun based on a resist roll or something? I think it was 7 seconds each time and it felt disproportionately punishing. Maybe that's a result of my gear and level (or lack thereof)?
Bear's roar applies a "daze" effect which only allows you to use auto attack. It should suffer diminishing returns if you are dazed again within a short time frame (30s I believe?). We are working on improvements to the resist system which may potentially reduce the duration if you have the proper resists.

  • Can you change it to automatically turn off auto-attack after defeating an enemy? I keep accidentally attacking things when I target them immediately following an encounter.
This is not something I am too keen on doing. I cannot account for every situation you are in, and I can think of many situations where players would not want to turn off auto attack after every encounter. We attempt to keep as much control as possible in the player's hands so that you feel you have agency over your avatar.

  • Please add a compass!
Please see this post for more details on a compass.

  • When hovering over loot, I would appreciate a pop-up description of the currently-equipped item in that slot for quick comparison. Not wanting to seem overly greedy in groups, several times I clicked Greed on something I actually really needed because I didn't have adequate time to assess things.
This is certainly something on the short list of things we need to do.

  • I much prefer a first-person perspective with the option to switch to third-person to view my character. Any chance of adding a first-person option?
There are a lot of issues that crop up with attempting to render these types of characters from a first person perspective. At the end of the day we just don't have the resources as a company to make it happen the way we would like. We would need additional custom animations for every weapon stance/attack, custom rendering tech for the body parts, and finally we would need an additional art pass over the entire game to validate that textures were up to par for being viewed at a closer distance.

  • I'd like the ability to opt-in on allowing folks to inspect me (or opt out).
This is on the list of things "to do" but it's a relatively low priority. It's certainly something we want to have, it's just a matter of when we can find the time to make it happen.
 

Meeks

Member
Heya Meeks thanks for taking the time to leave this feedback. Glad to have scratched that itch a bit for ya!


The nights are currently a bit over exposed, but I do agree that nights can exist without leaving the player blind. That's the goal.


This is unlikely to ever happen for a few reasons. The primary reason is that the in-game maps are not geographically accurate (by design) so putting a player marker on them wouldn't quite work.


The ground marker needs some love for sure. Right now we're in the midst of upgrading engines which changes how decals work (which is what we use for the ground targeting reticle) so hopefully a few new avenues will open up.


I think some of the reasons come down to the UI being a tad "busy" and the existence of a global chat channel. As we added features the UI got a bit more crowded which likely turns players off from using it. The global chat channel serves a similar function with a more immediate impact so that also diverts attention away from the LFG tool. The global channel was added to facilitate the beta test so it's still unclear if it will be kept through launch.


Bear's roar applies a "daze" effect which only allows you to use auto attack. It should suffer diminishing returns if you are dazed again within a short time frame (30s I believe?). We are working on improvements to the resist system which may potentially reduce the duration if you have the proper resists.


This is not something I am too keen on doing. I cannot account for every situation you are in, and I can think of many situations where players would not want to turn off auto attack after every encounter. We attempt to keep as much control as possible in the player's hands so that you feel you have agency over your avatar.


Please see this post for more details on a compass.


This is certainly something on the short list of things we need to do.


There are a lot of issues that crop up with attempting to render these types of characters from a first person perspective. At the end of the day we just don't have the resources as a company to make it happen the way we would like. We would need additional custom animations for every weapon stance/attack, custom rendering tech for the body parts, and finally we would need an additional art pass over the entire game to validate that textures were up to par for being viewed at a closer distance.


This is on the list of things "to do" but it's a relatively low priority. It's certainly something we want to have, it's just a matter of when we can find the time to make it happen.

Thank you for the insightful response to my nitpicky questions/feedback! Truly, I understand the approach with basically everything you explained and can appreciate encouraging players to figure things out without too much handholding.

Admittedly, I'm still a little hung-up on the idea behind not turning off auto-attack following combat and feel like I'm missing something. I'm not sure I've played another MMO that does this. If I'm soloing a single mob, when finished I'm still in attack mode which forces me to manually turn it off to allow me to run to my next target. I found myself in this position all night. On the other hand, if I'm in a group fighting multiple enemies all clustered together, once we kill something I risk selecting the wrong target and inadvertently gaining aggro from a non-primary target. Without an /assist feature, I have to be really careful about making sure I select the enemy the group's primary tank is attacking so I can focus on buffs and healing. You mention keeping control in the player's hands and this feels like the opposite. I'd like to control what I attack and when I attack it.
 

MrDDT

Active Member
Thank you for the insightful response to my nitpicky questions/feedback! Truly, I understand the approach with basically everything you explained and can appreciate encouraging players to figure things out without too much handholding.

Admittedly, I'm still a little hung-up on the idea behind not turning off auto-attack following combat and feel like I'm missing something. I'm not sure I've played another MMO that does this. If I'm soloing a single mob, when finished I'm still in attack mode which forces me to manually turn it off to allow me to run to my next target. I found myself in this position all night. On the other hand, if I'm in a group fighting multiple enemies all clustered together, once we kill something I risk selecting the wrong target and inadvertently gaining aggro from a non-primary target. Without an /assist feature, I have to be really careful about making sure I select the enemy the group's primary tank is attacking so I can focus on buffs and healing. You mention keeping control in the player's hands and this feels like the opposite. I'd like to control what I attack and when I attack it.

How is the game going to know you are done with the combat and not ready for another mob?

There is an assist feature, it's defaulted to F of your defense target.

As stated above you can hotkey your auto attacking on or off.
Personally, it works great for me. I'm all for options but from what I see the options are almost all there, as I don't see a way for the game to know when you want to be "out of autoattacking" because a mob is killed or not.
It does drop auto attacking also if you use CC skills.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
Admittedly, I'm still a little hung-up on the idea behind not turning off auto-attack following combat and feel like I'm missing something. I'm not sure I've played another MMO that does this. If I'm soloing a single mob, when finished I'm still in attack mode which forces me to manually turn it off to allow me to run to my next target. I found myself in this position all night. On the other hand, if I'm in a group fighting multiple enemies all clustered together, once we kill something I risk selecting the wrong target and inadvertently gaining aggro from a non-primary target. Without an /assist feature, I have to be really careful about making sure I select the enemy the group's primary tank is attacking so I can focus on buffs and healing. You mention keeping control in the player's hands and this feels like the opposite. I'd like to control what I attack and when I attack it.
From my perspective (as a designer) having the option to toggle auto attack on or off at any time is what puts the player in control. And we do have an assist feature! We have key binds for both offensive and defensive assists (I believe defensive assist is bound to F by default).

And as MrDDT mentioned we do have some abilities that can turn your auto attack on (most offensive abilities) and off (most CC abilities).
 

Kittik

Well-Known Member
Admittedly, I'm still a little hung-up on the idea behind not turning off auto-attack following combat and feel like I'm missing something. I'm not sure I've played another MMO that does this. If I'm soloing a single mob, when finished I'm still in attack mode which forces me to manually turn it off to allow me to run to my next target. I found myself in this position all night. On the other hand, if I'm in a group fighting multiple enemies all clustered together, once we kill something I risk selecting the wrong target and inadvertently gaining aggro from a non-primary target. Without an /assist feature, I have to be really careful about making sure I select the enemy the group's primary tank is attacking so I can focus on buffs and healing. You mention keeping control in the player's hands and this feels like the opposite. I'd like to control what I attack and when I attack it.
This is something I think a lot of new players to the game are going to have an issue with. I, myself, had a similar complaint when I started playing. Most games end combat per mob and you just re-engage and it turns back on from doing an ability. Not sure why it's set as the opposite here, but it is what it is. I've grown used to it, mostly because I've set it up to easily toggle it off. This is another 'quirk' of this game that goes against the industry standard of an accepted proven common practice.
 

Kaeolin

Well-Known Member
This is something I think a lot of new players to the game are going to have an issue with. I, myself, had a similar complaint when I started playing. Most games end combat per mob and you just re-engage and it turns back on from doing an ability
I never even thought twice about this. I'd rather it stay on so that if I have another mob to hit I don't have to toggle it back on. Most people sit after combat to regen health and stamina. Sitting cancels auto attack as well.
 

Meeks

Member
Some great points here, thanks! It's not how I'd prefer it, but it's also not at all a big deal. I'll just have to get used to it. And I'm happy to learn about the assist feature... will definitely be using that!
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
There's honestly an argument to be made for both options. I just personally feel that leaving it on puts the player more in control, and is something we can change in the future if it comes to it.
 

GeneralK

New Member
I also feel that the auto-attack is the opposite of most games, when I started it certainly threw me for a loop of like "why am I stuck in combat?" lol.

I can see both sides of it though like if you are cruising along killing in a group you want it to stay on and tab/assist to the next mob but if you are the puller or solo or something you'd want the 1 less keypress in order to do your next task shrug.

If possible for a small enough amount of dev resources I would say give us the option in options. Doesn't seem like it would hurt balance between players but I guess perhaps some confusion when people are playing by different auto-combat rules?

Edit: and combat stance is diff than that too right? So ~ and Z are not t he same thing, which a new player is confusing too for it going on after the mob is dead.
 

Pelirow

Active Member
Edit: and combat stance is diff than that too right? So ~ and Z are not t he same thing, which a new player is confusing too for it going on after the mob is dead.
Yes, auto-attack and combat stance are different, if you exit combat stance you simultaneously turn off auto attack, but turning off auto attack does not exit combat stance.
 

Undone

Codemaster
Stormhaven Studios
I also feel that the auto-attack is the opposite of most games, when I started it certainly threw me for a loop of like "why am I stuck in combat?" lol.

I can see both sides of it though like if you are cruising along killing in a group you want it to stay on and tab/assist to the next mob but if you are the puller or solo or something you'd want the 1 less keypress in order to do your next task shrug.

If possible for a small enough amount of dev resources I would say give us the option in options. Doesn't seem like it would hurt balance between players but I guess perhaps some confusion when people are playing by different auto-combat rules?

Edit: and combat stance is diff than that too right? So ~ and Z are not t he same thing, which a new player is confusing too for it going on after the mob is dead.
The issue comes down to: how do I know when you are finished attacking? I am making a presumption about your situation which may not always be true. And how would I trigger the "end of auto-attack"? Is it when your current target is dead? Is it when you have no target? Is it when you change targets? There are a lot of variables that come into play here and the reason I have never done it is because I don't like making assumptions about player intent if I can avoid it.