What's new
Embers Adrift

Register a free account today to Ignite your Adventure! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate with the Embers Adrift community. Your active account will also be the same account used to purchase, download, and login to the game.

Economy in Games

Type of Auction House / Trade System

  • Regional/city only auction house

    Votes: 7 14.9%
  • Server wide auction house

    Votes: 19 40.4%
  • Player shops

    Votes: 12 25.5%
  • Direct trading only

    Votes: 9 19.1%

  • Total voters
    47

Dalton

Well-Known Member
I am interested to see what type of game economies people enjoy most. For myself I have always found basic global auction house to be the best fit my gameplay style. I often do not have the time or know how to go out and obtain a lot of the materials I will need for crafting. The ability to pick up a new crafting skill and purchase many of the basic materials needed to level it up all while in the city has always appealed to me. I understand some may see this as cheating the system or not encouraging players to explore. I have too seen the discussion that any from of auction house decreases the interactions between players, or that player shops are the way to go. What I tend to see as the outcome for these is a lot of people spamming in city centers all day trying to sell or buy things, creating a large mess of a chat window to try and find what you are looking for. For a game like Embers Adrift which currently is not designed to have many major cities spread across 20+ zones, having a central auction house would cater to this type of game. If I can go out and gather in my free time and not spend the limited time I do have standing around in a city spamming "WTS FISH" but can place on an auction house and get back to dungeon diving or gathering would be a lot more enjoyable. Players that want to sell their goods directly will always still have that option as player trading is a thing.

Below is a poll, please pick which best fits your play style.
 

AdricLives

Administrator
Stormhaven Studios
I've loved aspects of every one. I think regional auction houses promote the most player activity in that they create a new kind of content in the form of logistical trading to move goods from high supply areas to high demand areas for profit. That benefits greatly from systems like buy and sell orders so you can see demand where typical auction house setups only show supply.
 

Arbutus

Well-Known Member
My $0.02...

I would like to see a broader community of NPC shopkeepers buying and selling locally available items. When an item is moved out of it's original zone, for example traded between shopkeepers in different zones, there would be a markup. This would be most appropriate for crafting materials which may only be available in specific areas. Shopkeepers could keep a list of imported items, with their inflated prices in addition to local goods.

Players could sell crafted/refined items to a local merchant for a baseline price or to a travelling merchant for a slightly higher selling and buying price. The travelling merchant would wander between settlements and zones, allowing trade items to be moved. A travelling merchant would be available for those on the road to trade with, reducing the need to return to town in some cases.

In keeping with the medieval/no-magic/no-tech world, the inns and taverns could become the meeting and gathering places for players to trade items or to leave an item with the innkeeper to sell 'on consignment'. A notice board (organised, searchable) could list the items available for sale. It might be feasible to allow an Innkeeper to post lists of items that are available at other nearby locations, up to one zone away. To purchase an item shown at another Inn, the player would need to travel there and make the purchase. Any transaction takes place locally with any ca$h being deposited to the player's vault. This type of system would allow player to player trades as well as player to merchant trades without the AH spam or other undesirable side effects of a global AH.

I am personally not a fan of the WOW/EQ style AH because it simply does not fit the lore or style of the Embers world.

(Tinker)
 

Elloa

Administrator
Stormhaven Studios
I'm personaly not interested in the economy, so the simplier the system the better for me. System like GW2 feels best for me as I can sell my stuff without having to think of it.

BUT, I recognise I prefer this system, because I'm not really interested into Trading.

I'm really not sure about regional trading. It's great in theory, but in practice it can be really boring. New World recently changed their regional trading intp cross region trading and it's a sandbox pvx game with territory control. It really show off that regional trading is once again a great idea in theory but in practice, it's not fun.
So I'm thinking that an hybrid system could be a brillant system.

REGIONAL TRADE: minimum taxes, instant trade.
CROSS REGION TRADE: distance taxes, time of "travel"

This would allow a immersive system, convenient enough for a price, for players that really don't want to do the travel themselves or bother with regions.
 

Aetrion

Active Member
As someone who's usually not into crafting and trading I tend to prefer a simple economy in games where I can just get what I want in one easy place at the lowest price.

On the other hand though, a system where markets are local and resources aren't all available in the same place etc. tends to be a lot more interesting for people who like crafting and trading.

I think you might be onto something there Elloa. Auction houses could list globally, but charge you a transportation fee for goods in different regions. If the listing fee is low enough and the transportation fee is high enough you give people the ability to turn a profit by moving goods themselves or producing goods in regions that don't have as many.
 

real changeling

New Member
i don't know a lot about how in game economies work to know what is best, but the idea of a transportation fee sounds interesting. I know i don't like when auction houses are flooded with junky gear because there's no other use for them in game
 

BLOODWYNS

New Member
Ok Travernen zum Handeln Gasthäuser oder Händler die Reisen so wie hier geschrieben wurde finde ich gut, ein gut geplantes Auktionsystem wäre auch was.
Es liegt wohl auch ein wenig an dem Berufesystem wie der Handel so wird,den wenn alle ein bischen abhängig voneinander sind und die Berufe sich
ergänzen.Je mehr man verarbeiten oder Umrüsten kann desto weniger muss verkauft werden es sollen ja keine Farmbots auftauchen:mad:
Na wir warten mal ab ich wünsche mir einen Packesel:) zum Transport der Gegenstände so wie früher in Dungeon Siege,
und zum mitfahren später erweitern wir das zu einer Kutsche (Packesel davor)und ab gehts.:cool:Natürlich selber gebaut durch einen Beruf!
 

Samhain

Member
Game economics when they go well, are invisible. When they don't go well... are awful and glaring.
New world economies had a big problem ( 5? weeks ago... when i stopped paying attention) where a normal player income was less than the normal expenses of playing, and that happened in tandem with a weird cascade in the price of certain materials related to crafting.
And that led to contested gathering spots for the tier 1 crafting materials because they held a decent price ( and a flood of the market of the top tier materials because folks were mining for rare mats)
There were some great reddit posts about that economy crash.

I was there in the freeport tunnels, trying to buy gear for my mage, I was there afk selling in the bazzar on luclin racking up plat and /played time, I've played the markets in WoW a time or two.
I think having a rock bottom vendor price is a good limiter for possible runaway economies. I'm a fan of all of the above options, as they all could have a role in an economy: high tax global AH, medium tax local AH ( or one AH that automatically does that).... but more complexity than a single interface might be too steep of a interaction cost... I dunno
 

Synoeca

New Member
I'm the only one who voted for direct trade only, reason being is I think trading should be regarded as a player skill that some people will be good at, others not so much. I enjoy doing a deal after having to work at it, it's gratifying when you finally sell an item having decided not to lower the price or give up and just vendor it, or when you negotiate down the price of an item. My last deal in EQ was when I was playing a new char and managed to persuade a seller to trade a weapon he was selling for some bone chips I'd collected. When they introduced the bazaar in EQ they lost a lot of immersiveness - when you go to a market irl there's a lot of noise and bustle - as there was in the EC tunnels (noise of a different kind), the bazaar felt dead all the time, and you lost a place where the high levels would naturally interact with low levels, giving out buffs and free gear. The Auction House in WoW was slightly more immersive but I seem to recall the decent loot was all Soulbound and trading wasn't very important at all. I guess the downside is the possibility of paying way too much for an item, or selling something much cheaper than it should be - but is that really a downside, or just mimic real life?

One thing I really like about the classic EQ economy is the way newbies can obtain commodity items as part of their levelling up and sell to higher level players. Bone chips are the perfect example - necromancers and SKs always need bone chips to summon pets, newbie yards are full of level 1 skeletons that drop bone chips therefore by the time they've out grown the newbie yard they should have several stacks. Sure a high level player can spend valuable time killing the level 1 skeletons to obtain hundreds of bone chips, but for most it's easier just to give a few plat per stack to the newbie for theirs.
 

Felwit

Well-Known Member
I voted for server-wide AH. It is simply a matter of convenience and freeing my time up for other aspects of the game. While EC Commons has some nostalgia, it is terribly inefficient. I participate much more often in the economy on these games when there are convenient auction houses. An AH also increases participation among players who are not willing to re-announce their offer every 2 minutes as it scrolls off the screen due to the number of offers being made.

WoW has the AH, but still has the trade channel in big cities, so people have multiple options. But the vast majority of the economy funnels through the AH. I doubt an EC Commons scenario could effectively handle the economy pumped through the AH. I don't see how you get the idea that trading isn't important in WoW. WoW trading tended to focus more on gathered and crafted materials, though I understand there is a sizeable market for pets and transmog gear.

Newbies could have just as easily sold bone chips through an AH, if one existed in EQ. It would have made things even easier for Necros and SKs, as the AH can aggregate the sales across multiple newbies and provide an easy delivery system.

An AH also helps reduce time- and locality-based distortions in the market. E.g., if a player wants to corner the market in bone chips, the AH forces them to buy the entire server supply of bone chips, not only the bone chips available around Freeport between 8pm-midnight server time. The AH also helps the newbie more easily check and realize the person offering a silver apiece for bone chips is low-balling them, as the AH makes the economy more transparent.
 

Samhain

Member
One thing I really like about the classic EQ economy is the way newbies can obtain commodity items as part of their levelling up and sell to higher level players. Bone chips are the perfect example - necromancers and SKs always need bone chips to summon pets, newbie yards are full of level 1 skeletons that drop bone chips therefore by the time they've out grown the newbie yard they should have several stacks. Sure a high level player can spend valuable time killing the level 1 skeletons to obtain hundreds of bone chips, but for most it's easier just to give a few plat per stack to the newbie for theirs.

This is a great design element that I had forgotten about EQ, +1 on this concept
 

Adinos

Member
I would classify myself as an exploration/crafting-focused player, and unsurprisingly, the mechanisms of the economic system are of great interest to me. Now, obviously that's not true for everyone..there are players whose primary focus is on gaining status and wealth - the economy is only relevant as far as it allows them to profit from selling their treasures and loot.

It makes sense IMO, to have the economic system designed to support all the different kinds of players, regardless of what motivates them.
 

Elloa

Administrator
Stormhaven Studios
I would classify myself as an exploration/crafting-focused player, and unsurprisingly, the mechanisms of the economic system are of great interest to me. Now, obviously that's not true for everyone..there are players whose primary focus is on gaining status and wealth - the economy is only relevant as far as it allows them to profit from selling their treasures and loot.

It makes sense IMO, to have the economic system designed to support all the different kinds of players, regardless of what motivates them.

That's ideally what we will do :)
 

Kittik

Well-Known Member
I love auction houses because I like to window shop and think "one day", not because I ever have the money to buy the stuff, or that I like the economy of an AH, I just like that ability to go out and look. MMO's are so vast that an AH allows me the ability to see all the neat things in the game that I most likely will never get around to finding or seeing myself.
 

Elloa

Administrator
Stormhaven Studios
I love auction houses because I like to window shop and think "one day", not because I ever have the money to buy the stuff, or that I like the economy of an AH, I just like that ability to go out and look. MMO's are so vast that an AH allows me the ability to see all the neat things in the game that I most likely will never get around to finding or seeing myself.
That's a fantastic point of view that I never heard/read before. Very interesting!
 

happypuppy

New Member
I chose only direct trading. Here's the thing I think it would be more interesting if the auction house was more of an event rather than spray and pray. I don't like player owned shops because players just leave them on and go AFK and it just has a bad look and stigma of dead MMOs doing this. I don't like the typical auction house because people just put stuff up and leave. I like the idea of people trading actively in person and if they got anything big to sell they are able to put it up on the limited time auction house event and not only will this bring players together it will actually increase the chances of your item to sell because people know this is a limited time offer.

And let's just say the players that wanted to buy your auctioned item wasn't there and you didn't get it to sell. But some players will remember your name and the item associated with it so they will find you to do direct trading. The players that were online for the event might be able to link players that were offline and say they remember John407 was selling that Hammer of Retribution the other day at the auction house you should ask him if they wanted to buy it. Or heck you can buy it for your guild member. Just feels this is more player interactive and will help foster growth in community.

So the auction house event is open to sell your items for one day per week or something. And special holiday events can keep auction house opened for longer maybe 3 days or so.
I just feel like the auction house event being almost like a reward would give a bigger dopamine rush to players too if they win something or sell something.
 

Nulore

Member
I have to admit i strongly dislike Auction House systems, not for any reason other than bots and money sellers generally force up prices until most cannot afford things unless they.....purchase money. It rapidly becomes a viscious circle where casual players cannot compete and become disheartened.
The best system i ever played was in the early days of DDO, before AH was implemented, basically thursday evening was market day where players set out there stalls to trade, kinda fun and currency had value.
 

Felwit

Well-Known Member
I am wondering, would a Commission House work better than an Auction House, with people trying to jack up prices on items? Instead of listing items on the AH that people could buy, you would list what you are willing to buy (would have to include a quality level for armor/weapons), the price you will pay, and how many you want.

If someone wanted to jack up the price of Tin Ore, they'd have to put up a commission for 10,000 pieces and pay the money cost up-front. But to sell, they'd have to use /auction channels or wait for someone else to put up a commission for tin ore. People might still raise the price they will pay on commission, but I suspect it wouldn't go as high as quickly. Using the commission system, people will already be expecting it might take 24 hours to get what they are commissioning. Even then, nobody might be willing to pay the offered price.

The problem would then be crafters who want something NOW in order to craft something, or raiders needing a potion NOW, would not be able to get it that quickly. They would still have to use /auction channels and possibly pay high prices.
 

Nulore

Member
This is a big question that no game seems to have solved and i don't claim to have an answer, lol. All i know is what i have experienced and on that it always ends the same way, give a money seller an easy source of ingame currency and you will lose the player based economy idea. As mentioned in my previous post, the only time i have ever seen a game NOT bot infested and money seller pawned is pre AH DDO, where players opened stalls to sell goods, they set prices and afk was no problem, you couldnt haggle if they where afk, but you could still buy at the set prices.