Crafting irregularities

[Nfab35]

It appears that in the third iteration of crafting there still seems to be issues with crafted items.
Since Alpha it seemed lower tier resources would yield better weapons/armor than current resources for your level. This issue is still persistent in this third iteration of crafting. It doesn't seem right that lower tier resources should yield better stats than higher resources used that match your level.
I'm not sure if stats/combinations are being entered manually to try and reach the correct scope of gear or armor, or if a spread sheet is being used to generate potential outcomes for crafted gear/armor. But it seems something is still off in the crafting aspect of being able to utilize the correct resources for the desired level of items.

Maybe I don't understand how the crafting system actually works and how certain components play a part when crafting. But it doesn't seem right if you wanted to make a lvl 20 weapon and you use Zink or highland copper, that the weapon will be less effective than if that level 20 weapon was crafted with lvl 10 tin.
If crafting is working as intended is it possible to we could get a spreadsheet of sorts explaining the reasoning behind why lower tier crafting seems to yield better weapons/armor?
Anyone else seeing any issues that don't seem right with the current crafting that is available?

 

[Undone]

It appears that in the third iteration of crafting there still seems to be issues with crafted items.
Since Alpha it seemed lower tier resources would yield better weapons/armor than current resources for your level. This issue is still persistent in this third iteration of crafting. It doesn't seem right that lower tier resources should yield better stats than higher resources used that match your level.
I'm not sure if stats/combinations are being entered manually to try and reach the correct scope of gear or armor, or if a spread sheet is being used to generate potential outcomes for crafted gear/armor. But it seems something is still off in the crafting aspect of being able to utilize the correct resources for the desired level of items.

Maybe I don't understand how the crafting system actually works and how certain components play a part when crafting. But it doesn't seem right if you wanted to make a lvl 20 weapon and you use Zink or highland copper, that the weapon will be less effective than if that level 20 weapon was crafted with lvl 10 tin.
If crafting is working as intended is it possible to we could get a spreadsheet of sorts explaining the reasoning behind why lower tier crafting seems to yield better weapons/armor?
Anyone else seeing any issues that don't seem right with the current crafting that is available?

Could you give a more specific example of what you mean and I'll have @AdricLives look into it when he gets back from vacation?

One thing to note is that new tiers of materials are not necessarily supposed to be "better" but instead offer a different "flavor" of sorts. Different raw material properties may put their emphasis on different stats as opposed to just making things more powerful.

 

[Nfab35]

Could you give a more specific example of what you mean and I'll have @AdricLives look into it when he gets back from vacation?

One thing to note is that new tiers of materials are not necessarily supposed to be "better" but instead offer a different "flavor" of sorts. Different raw material properties may put their emphasis on different stats as opposed to just making things more powerful.

I'll try to put something together after the Wednesday test. Different stats really aren't showing up using different resources though. The necklaces for example only yield health regen heavy stats now instead of being able to use a different gem to get sta heavy regen stat over the health like the prior crafting system allowed. It feels like with out flux gear is kind of garbage, which flux was supposed to make it better I get that. But using flux really doesnt do anything other than add one set of stats that don't seem to change to anything different when using other resources, stats just get worse. There is not any type of flexibility or creativity with the current system in place.

Feels generic and very limited on what we can craft especially when using flux it doesn't seem to really make anything better than the common drops.

The stats you could achieve from crafting yielded better results before this iteration of crafting. Feels like we lost something along the way with the simplification of components used.

 

[Undone]

I'll try to put something together after the Wednesday test. Different stats really aren't showing up using different resources though. The necklaces for example only yield health regen heavy stats now instead of being able to use a different gem to get sta heavy regen stat over the health like the prior crafting system allowed. It feels like with out flux gear is kind of garbage, which flux was supposed to make it better I get that. But using flux really doesnt do anything other than add one set of stats that don't seem to change to anything different when using other resources, stats just get worse. There is not any type of flexibility or creativity with the current system in place.

Feels generic and very limited on what we can craft especially when using flux it doesn't seem to really make anything better than the common drops.

The stats you could achieve from crafting yielded better results before this iteration of crafting. Feels like we lost something along the way with the simplification of components used.

What you are saying doesn't line up; flux literally unlocks stats that you had in the last iteration before the introduction of flux. Think of flux as the paywall in front of stat tweaks in the previous iteration. You'll need to drop some specific examples so we can review.

 

[Nfab35]

What you are saying doesn't line up; flux literally unlocks stats that you had in the last iteration before the introduction of flux. Think of flux as the paywall in front of stat tweaks in the previous iteration. You'll need to drop some specific examples so we can review.

The crafting before this wipe flux seemed to work well. This crafting system currently in place, flux doesnt seem to really do much, not like it did before the wipe. Maybe things aren't working as intended for the proper stats with resources and flux in this iteration of the crafting. But if you were to ask anyone who has messed around with the crafting this go round, a majority are not very happy with what we've got implemented. It just seems like I said before, things are bland/lackluster and there is no creativity or versatility when crafting. As it stands with crafted gear at the moment from what I'm seeing the crafted items are still lacking. Maybe stats got nerfed from before to now? But you cannot craft equivalent gear or weapons that we had prior to the wipe with the current system. And unfortunately with some slots being crafted items only, we have to settle for mediocre pieces just to fill a slot now that would be empty without it since those no longer drop and are only crafted.

Don't get me wrong, I do like where crafting is trying to head. But it is still lacking and needs something more to make it something viable and useful that people would want.

 

[Nfab35]

I will get specific examples Wednesday as best as I can. I will try to go through my old screenshots and get the ones from the new stuff to better show what I'm trying to explain.

 

[Undone]

The crafting before this wipe flux seemed to work well. This crafting system currently in place, flux doesnt seem to really do much, not like it did before the wipe. Maybe things aren't working as intended for the proper stats with resources and flux in this iteration of the crafting. But if you were to ask anyone who has messed around with the crafting this go round, a majority are not very happy with what we've got implemented. It just seems like I said before, things are bland/lackluster and there is no creativity or versatility when crafting. As it stands with crafted gear at the moment from what I'm seeing the crafted items are still lacking. Maybe stats got nerfed from before to now. But you cannot craft equivalent gear or weapons that we had prior to the wipe with the current system. And unfortunately with some slots being crafted items only, we have to settle for mediocre pieces just to fill a slot now that would be empty without it since those no longer drop and are only crafted.

Don't get me wrong, I do like where crafting is trying to head. But it is still lacking and needs something more to make it something viable and useful that people would want.

This is literally the first I have heard of it - so thanks for providing feedback. Like I mentioned previously, please cite some specific examples for us to look into. Thanks!

Whoever the "majority are not very happy" is they are doing a severe disservice to the game by not leaving feedback. The longer people wait to leave feedback the more difficult it is to address; especially as we get closer to launch. If we implement changes and hear nothing about it we have to assume that things are working well. If they are not, then please for the love of ember speak up.

 

[Nfab35]

This is literally the first I have heard of it - so thanks for providing feedback. Like I mentioned previously, please cite some specific examples for us to look into. Thanks!

Whoever the "majority are not very happy" is they are doing a severe disservice to the game by not leaving feedback. The longer people wait to leave feedback the more difficult it is to address; especially as we get closer to launch. If we implement changes and hear nothing about it we have to assume that things are working well. If they are not, then please for the love of ember speak up.

Maybe this post will yield some feedback from them. And possibly they could explain things better for what they're seeing than my futile attempt lol

 

[Nfab35]

Also I should add that recipes used to make armor and weapons honestly can't be fully tested for a comparison from the old to the new till the recipes for everything is available. Once those are added it could yield better results. Maybe I jumped the gun early before we had everything at our disposal to try, but from the feedback from people crafting I thought I'd mention something. Maybe with most still being around lvl 10 they haven't had the chance to really get into more of the crafting and also it seems like there are quite a few new people who might not have anything to compare the new craft to since they're not aware of how the old crafting was.

 

[Undone]

Also I should add that recipes used to make armor and weapons honestly can't be fully tested for a comparison from the old to the new till the recipes for everything is available. Once those are added it could yield better results. Maybe I jumped the gun early before we had everything at our disposal to try, but from the feedback from people crafting I thought I'd mention something. Maybe with most still being around lvl 10 they haven't had the chance to really get into more of the crafting and also it seems like there are quite a few new people who might not have anything to compare the new craft to since they're not aware of how the old crafting was.

You are sending me mixed signals here!

 

[Nfab35]

You are sending me mixed signals here!

Lol my apologies. Got to thinking after my previous posts, that we are still lacking some recipes that could change the issues I've seen. Spider silk recipe is definitely a main one that anything cloth related should greatly benefit from providing it still works as well as it did in the last build. My apologies for the headaches sir

 

[Undone]

Lol my apologies. Got to thinking after my previous posts, that we are still lacking some recipes that could change the issues I've seen. Spider silk recipe is definitely a main one that anything cloth related should greatly benefit from providing it still works as well as it did in the last build. My apologies for the headaches sir

No headaches are had. Just trying to suss this all out and we're running out of time to get it right!

 

[Randy Magnum]

Before the last couple changes to crafting, We had a myriad of materials and the crafting system had to be explored like its own mini game. Different leathers (every animal had its own type of leather) produced different stats in armor. You had to figure them all out by trying combinations (different strings and cloth changed stats too). Same for wood (there were more types of wood too) and metal. There are still remnants of that system in todays crafting. So it may seem weird now that some combinations render better results, but I really like that aspect. It makes you work and experiment to find the best item. Some results are based in reality, for example, the best arrows are made with pine. Cedar is higher level (cedar used to give haste when added to recipe) but for arrows, pine is always best (there is higher level pine) So a tin tip with a pine shaft and linen (linen used to be faster than cotton but I think they are the same now - at least at low level) fletching. A copper handle produces better stats in some weapons than tin or wood.
I like the variations because it makes you have to find the best combinations. For me, its more fun than just adding the same thing but different tier for everything.

 

[Vengeance]

I believe i know what he is saying. As i encountered this while experimenting crafting this weekend. If you were making a Tin Maul (lets say) and I used Tin as all my components then i would get specific stats. However, when i used the main ingredient as Tin and change the handle to Copper bars then I would get a way much better result in stats than the lather. When adding flux the only big difference i noticed in most cases was an increase in durability only. It does not effect weapon speed or dmg per say as you would think flux would do. But i understand the concern that he is bringing up.

In theory using higher resources should yield better results than lower level resources, however from your response this is intended? This could cause issues when more people are playing as all the high levels will still be in the newb zones harvesting low lvl stuff, which will prevent new players from getting mining nodes etc.

 

[Undone]

In theory using higher resources should yield better results than lower level resources, however from your response this is intended? This could cause issues when more people are playing as all the high levels will still be in the newb zones harvesting low lvl stuff, which will prevent new players from getting mining nodes etc.

Higher tier materials does not always mean "better" in the traditional sense no. It should mean "different". However, it sounds like there is something else going on here? It would be helpful if we had concrete examples to go off of rather than "got a much better result" as we don't necessarily know what that means (as this could mean different things to different players).

 

[Vengeance]

Higher tier materials does not always mean "better" in the traditional sense no. It should mean "different". However, it sounds like there is something else going on here? It would be helpful if we had concrete examples to go off of rather than "got a much better result" as we don't necessarily know what that means (as this could mean different things to different players).

I will not be able to provide them until we test again. I had meant to take screen shots of it but i forgot to as i was using several components to see what it yielded. Will try to have examples after we get to log back in.

 

[Randy Magnum]

Going to lower areas to gather won't be an issue. The same materials have higher level representation. There is tier 1 copper, and then there is tier 3 copper and so on with most mats. The arrow made with tier 1 pine won't be as good as the one made with tier 3 pine and so on.

Flux added to weapons yields stats and +2 dmg. A maul without flux may be dmg 2d7 +2, a maul with flux (correct level) will yield 2d7 +4 and then have +3 pen +2 hit. just as an example. i have not seen a recipe that did not yield these results. I didnt try them all i dont think though

You have to use correct flux though or it lowers the recipe

 

[Nfab35]

To clarify a little more about what I was trying to say and after talking to some crafters I was a little off on what I was trying to get at.
There is a little bit of flexibility when crafting but it is very minimal.

For example when crafting the leather pieces that can be crafted, no matter what components are used you will only either combat movement and or flanking. No other options for adding any other type of stats. Same applies to other crafted items like the jewelry or cloth, very limited on the set stats those items get with no versatility.

What I'm hearing is the crafting seems to function ok from a mechanics aspect but is lacking in options and is very basic.

Maybe this is something we can expand on to give more options to crafting to make it viable for those that like to craft and also in turn give us as players the chance to make items more fitting to our play style. Right now that isnt an option. Things seem very cut and dry with next zero versatility.

There are multiple ways this could be addressed to grow on what we already have. More specialized gathered resources that can add different stats. The possible combining of certain resources already in game to create and new resource to be used that can yield something different. Maybe having only certain resources available depending on the season or time of day.
I think anything we could do to grow the crafting to be entertaining and fruitful for everyone is a step in the right direction. The foundation is good but we might want to look at expanding it and growing it from here.
This is just my take and maybe others dont feel the same or maybe others just give zero shits about crafting lol. Either way imo in an mmo usually people want a good crafting system that helps immerse themselves in that side of the game. Which in turn makes their professions viable and give people options when they want to tweak their character to their playstyle. Hopefully this is something we can look forward to as the game grows. A good crafting system will be a positive to a lot of people who may be in the fence with the game and especially if it's done right.

 

[Undone]

The idea is that as you get access to more materials your set of options grows. However, we often need to balance that with designating certain equipment slots to only provide certain stats to prevent players from just stacking one stat too heavily.

 

[Nfab35]

The idea is that as you get access to more materials your set of options grows. However, we often need to balance that with designating certain equipment slots to only provide certain stats to prevent players from just stacking one stat too heavily.

This is good to hear. Knowing that it will grow from what we currently have in place is a definite positive. I love the game and what you guys are doing with it and I want this game to be successful when it launches. Having a really good crafting system I believe will really help the success of the game.