10 tips on giving feedback

[Alice_Bluu]

Giving good feedback is vital to the growth and success of the game. Constructive feedback helps the devs improve their skills, fosters trust, and enhances communication. It creates more positive and productive relationships all around. Many people struggle with this in their day to day lives, receiving or giving feedback, let alone being able to do it in a public manner or with people you may not be very familiar with. So, I thought it might be helpful if I make this post giving some tips on how to go about it, after all I have been doing it for quite some time now and it took me a long time to figure it out.
Giving good feedback requires some level of self-reflection.

Tip #1 - Choose the right time. Don't give knee jerk reactive feedback, avoid doing it in rushed or stressful situations. Let it sink in a little bit and ask yourself some questions. How am I feeling about this? Why do I feel this way? Then take it a little deeper, try to pinpoint exactly what aspect of something is making you feel a certain way. From there you will be able to give more valuable feedback about how and why you liked or didn't like something.

Tip #2 - Be clear and specific. "I don't like this, it feels shitty" or even "this is awesome" is not very helpful in terms of helping the devs to understand why something does or doesn't work.

Tip #3 - Balance positive and constructive comments. Give feedback on things you love about the game, no matter how small. Not only does this help boost dev morale (which is vital) but it helps the devs understand what IS working. Acknowledge strengths as well as areas for improvement.

Tip #4 - Read your own feedback before you post it. Do you sound like a whiny 5-year-old? If the shoe was on the other foot, would you honestly take what that person said to you in? Maybe rewrite it, it's hard to take a grown adult seriously when they are acting like a child wouldn't you agree?

Tip #5 - TEST things on the qa server with honest intent, spend more than 5 minutes there, I know I know it's taking away precious time from your actual progress but feedback given BEFORE things get to live can be majorly impactful, even if its small.

Tip #6 - Small things matter too. Give feedback on seemingly small things, like the ui or some random npc dialogue for example.

Tip #7 - Use the /report function in game if you are feeling discord/forums shy.

Tip #8 - Read the patch notes, maybe even twice, get a better understanding of what a change is doing and why. Understanding what is happening and what the purpose of it is can only serve to help you help the devs.

Tip #9 - Try to think about the game as a whole and what something may mean to a low level vs a high level or a new player vs one that's been around for a while. This can help you expand upon your feedback.

Tip #10 - Consider yourself as a gamer & what games you typically enjoy and consider the differences in Embers Adrift. What kind of marketing do those games have? Ask yourself "do i just want to play x game?" Knowing yourself as a gamer and what biases you may unwittingly have and being aware of that when giving feedback can be quite enlightening and will help you construct your feedback with objectivity.

At the end of the day if you enjoy the game and want it to succeed and continue to grow, your feedback is important and when done in a respectful and constructive manner can be very impactful.

In an effort to avoid writing an extremely long post, if you want some more in-depth advice this article is also very helpful and applicable to giving feedback in a game development environment.

Disclaimer - this is based on my personal opinions and experience over the years of testing and is intended to help people who WANT to be better at giving feedback that helps improve the game.

 

[emberral]

The devs have a vision. All devs do. That is 100% ok. Their game, their way. I've seen the responses to feedback. Even feedback that seems to be spot on for improving the game is met with a response saying, and these are my words of how the response came across "Nope, not going to happen. We want things such-and-such a way". The response and insistence on sticking to a broken vision on a tiny aspect of the game indicates a rigidity that makes it pointless to give feedback, no matter how well thought out and constructive. The current vision has the game with 12-25 people playing on average. I've seen new people come and go. They are not staying. There is a reason for that. So, I just don't bother with feedback. No point.

Prime example: They insist on it being necessary to rely on others to craft. Low pop. Not growing. This would work if the game had a dynamic population. It doesn't. The current line of thought is that people are placing a lot of hope in the Steam release. What they don't seem to think about is that this game is not going to fundamentally change when it hits Steam. The vision is the vision. If the game is not popular now, Steam isn't going to make it more so by some miracle. If nothing changes, then then the game won't grow.

 

[Undone]

The devs have a vision. All devs do. That is 100% ok. Their game, their way. I've seen the responses to feedback. Even feedback that seems to be spot on for improving the game is met with a response saying, and these are my words of how the response came across "Nope, not going to happen. We want things such-and-such a way". The response and insistence on sticking to a broken vision on a tiny aspect of the game indicates a rigidity that makes it pointless to give feedback, no matter how well thought out and constructive. The current vision has the game with 12-25 people playing on average. I've seen new people come and go. They are not staying. There is a reason for that. So, I just don't bother with feedback. No point.

There is always a point imo. All bits of feedback are helpful and give perspective from different viewpoints. We have changed our minds and/or softened our stance countless times since launch.

Prime example: They insist on it being necessary to rely on others to craft. Low pop. Not growing. This would work if the game had a dynamic population. It doesn't. The current line of thought is that people are placing a lot of hope in the Steam release. What they don't seem to think about is that this game is not going to fundamentally change when it hits Steam. The vision is the vision. If the game is not popular now, Steam isn't going to make it more so by some miracle. If nothing changes, then then the game won't grow.

Let's say we change crafting to be fully self reliant. Now let's say that the game suddenly catches a tail wind and the population booms for an unrelated reason. Do we now go back and change crafting back to where we had it because it would work because we have a dynamic population?

Should we redesign the game to be more solo oriented because the population is low? What happens when/if the population grows? Do we revert our changes so we can add more group content? It's a delicate balance trying to serve the needs of the current population while simultaneously attempting to make the game we envisioned. Our goal was to make a social oriented MMO where players had to somewhat rely on each other. Is it working out exactly how we envisioned it? Absolutely not. But how much of that vision can we sacrifice before the game is no longer the game we wanted to make?

 

[emberral]

I don't personally think crafting interdependence is the selling point for this game. It's the grouping and adventuring that really scratch the itch. I realize that is just my opinion. Keep it how it is. I guess we can wait to see how the game does at Steam release. It's easier to wait and see and adjust than it is to change it now, then have 5000 people playing, and try to change it back. If you were to change it now to not be interdependent, then you realistically would not be able to go back. That cat would already be let out of the bag.

For the record, I work on all trade skills and gathering skills. I am self-reliant presently. I don't know what percentage of people cover all trade/harvesting skills themselves. I'm retired, so I have a lot of time to play. I don't naively think that is true for most that play. I don't really think there is that much interdependence going on, but I am certainly not all-knowing, so I can't know that is true.

It's your game and your vision. I'm not trying to be harsh when I say this, but it's pretty obvious that thus far, the vision has been almost completely rejected. I didn't play at release, but I'm told things were changed to help soften some things. Will what you've done be enough to attract a large number of new players when Steam releases? We will find out. I've advertised this game to people in other Discords. I know at least some of them have tried the game. I've tracked the population since I started playing two weeks ago. If anything, the average population seems to be down from a peak about a week ago. You will, of course, have better metrics on that than I do, so I could be completely wrong. Respectfully, your vision does not appear to appeal to people in such a way that they stay and donate. Again, that is just empirical analysis on my part. I don't know what your bottom line is looking like. Perhaps you are getting money, and lots of it from the 14-22 people that were online yesterday from about 130-930pm Eastern.

I hope it doesn't sound like I hate the game. I don't. I've met some super awesome people I play with regularly. If I didn't care, I would have uninstalled and moved on. It takes time and effort to try to offer a perspective that may not be popular. I do it because I hate it when an MMORPG shuts down. MMORPGs are my hobby. When one dies, it hurts the entire market. It makes investors less likely to risk funding future attempts at an MMORPG. I am not one to just talk. I put my money where my mouth is. Back in 2014, I donated $1,000 to Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. I had great hopes for the game because I loved Everquest. Anyone who has kept up with the game knows it has often taken two steps back for every step forward. This game is more fun than Pantheon to me. I really would like to see it thrive. I know a lot of blood, sweat and tears were put into the game and continue to be put into it.

At the end of the day, if your vision does not match what people want, then there will be a problem. Trying to keep a vision going when it obviously has not worked to draw in and retain a population that can sustain the game is a conscious choice, no doubt about it. I hope it works out.

 

[emberral]

A recent suggestion in the suggestions section of Discord supports my thoughts on the game. Someone suggested a 10th slot be added to the account so that they can always have someone in level range 6-10 to help new players when they need CV1. The person who posted finally deleted the original post in frustration. Responses like "They are already generous enough to allow us 9 slots". That completely missed the point. Ready comprehension? Basically, offering one slot for each class of a game is the bare minimum, in my opinion. Having a 10th slot that is capped at 10 so someone can help new low-level players out is not a terrible idea. It would help keep the content challenging. Sure, some level 50 can come in and steamroll the content for them, but that's not really fun when someone is trying to explore and learn. Of course, the problem is that then you would need to allow for someone to have a character in the 11-20 range, 20-30, 30-40, and 40-50 to keep the content relevant and challenging. The best way to do that is to have a higher population that will keep new blood coming in, people rolling alts, etc. The person was trying to be helpful, but really, it's a band aid being applied to the problem, and not really a solution to the problem.

I wonder how many people have logged in, gotten to about level 4-6 and could not find anyone to help with content and just quietly logged, never to return? Not a happy thought.

 

[Undone]

It's your game and your vision. I'm not trying to be harsh when I say this, but it's pretty obvious that thus far, the vision has been almost completely rejected. I didn't play at release, but I'm told things were changed to help soften some things. Will what you've done be enough to attract a large number of new players when Steam releases? We will find out. I've advertised this game to people in other Discords. I know at least some of them have tried the game. I've tracked the population since I started playing two weeks ago. If anything, the average population seems to be down from a peak about a week ago. You will, of course, have better metrics on that than I do, so I could be completely wrong. Respectfully, your vision does not appear to appeal to people in such a way that they stay and donate. Again, that is just empirical analysis on my part. I don't know what your bottom line is looking like. Perhaps you are getting money, and lots of it from the 14-22 people that were online yesterday from about 130-930pm Eastern.

I hope it doesn't sound like I hate the game. I don't. I've met some super awesome people I play with regularly. If I didn't care, I would have uninstalled and moved on. It takes time and effort to try to offer a perspective that may not be popular. I do it because I hate it when an MMORPG shuts down. MMORPGs are my hobby. When one dies, it hurts the entire market. It makes investors less likely to risk funding future attempts at an MMORPG. I am not one to just talk. I put my money where my mouth is. Back in 2014, I donated $1,000 to Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. I had great hopes for the game because I loved Everquest. Anyone who has kept up with the game knows it has often taken two steps back for every step forward. This game is more fun than Pantheon to me. I really would like to see it thrive. I know a lot of blood, sweat and tears were put into the game and continue to be put into it.

At the end of the day, if your vision does not match what people want, then there will be a problem. Trying to keep a vision going when it obviously has not worked to draw in and retain a population that can sustain the game is a conscious choice, no doubt about it. I hope it works out.

I don't disagree with most of this and appreciate you sharing. We do our best to not take things personally and have rational discussions so it means a lot to us that you take the time. And you are right that our "vision" has been rejected by the masses. We set out to make the game we wanted to make and it did not live up to our hopes and dreams. I've worked on this game for nearly a decade of my life and have no desire to watch it die. However, as you alluded to we have to make a decision at some point to give up on the game we set out to make or just keep pushing forward and enjoying the ride.

Given our current financial situation and everything we've been through the past 6 months we're likely to just keep pushing forward. Why? Mainly because there's no guaranteed return in making huge changes to the game that lie outside of our idea of what we wanted to make. Not to mention the development time required to make significant overhauls just isn't viable with our current resources. At the end of the day there are a handful of people that understand and love what we are doing, and there are a lot more who don't. We have come to terms with that. It's not what we had hoped for, but it's what we've got.